Hercules Guitar Stands Are Mucking Up My DCM

[squid]

Hi, everyone. I keep all of my guitars out on Hercules stands. These are the hanging type that "grab" the neck of the guitar just at the base of the headstock. Tonight I took my 330 DCM down for a quick dust and polish and noticed that the stand had left two dull patches on (or maybe in?) the CV where the stand holds the neck. I can't remove them with rubbing. I was a little surprised because the foam on these stands is soft enough that scratching shouldn't be a problem, and I'd been led to believe that the foam wouldn't do anything nasty to the finish. Live and learn I guess.

In terms of appearance, the patches have the same effect as a fingerprint. They just take the glassiness off the finish. Also, the metallic nature of the finish isn't as evident which signifies to me that the light isn't getting through like it should. Any ideas on what's happened and how it might be corrected (short of a new application of CV)? Oh, and I checked my other guitars (including a number of Rics) and couldn't see any similar problems.

Thanks!

[elysrand]

Hi John! I am so sorry this has happened to your guitar! I have five of the DCMs myself, and would be absolutely floored if I discovered that this had happened to any of mine.

This subject, together with the cures, has been discussed a number of times over in Paul Wilczynski's forum, "Reflections of a Curmudgeon". You can get the fastest answers over there, most likely.

This is one reason why I use On-Stage stands, by the way. The issue with the silicone rubber material and the volatile plasticizers seems to not be nearly as pronounced with the rubber they use in the On-Stage stand models that I use nowadays.

[jingle_jangle]

I've heard from reliable sources that DCM is a softer finish than usual, and it certainly takes longer than other finishes to "degas".

The problem you're having with the stands is the vinyl plasticizer, possibly a phthalate, has migrated into the CV and softened it and allowed the rough texture of the foam to make an impression in the locally-softened CV.This could be exacerbated by the slow-to-cure properties of the DCM color itself.

[squid]

Thanks, Paul and Elys. I suppose the only cure is a repair to the CV itself then? What would that entail in a case like this one? Would the "softened" CV have to be removed? Could it just be "buffed out" or would new CV have to applied?

Thanks again.

[jingle_jangle]

John:

No drastic measures are necessary here. You can buff it out by hand with an investment of about $10.00-12.00; most of that will be for an 8-ounce bottle of No. 7 Clearcoat Polishing Compound or Meguiar's Medium Cut Cleaner (M0116).

Also buy a sheet of #1500 wet or dry sandpaper.

Cut the sandpaper into small pieces about 2" X 4" and fold one into thirds. Dip the folded paper into a soap and water solution and sand the marred area until it has a soft sheen. I use a magnifying Opti-Visor (like you see on Leo Fender's head in some pictures) to check the surface, but it's not strictly needed if you oay attention to how much sanding you do. Stop sanding when the area is uniformly smooth.

Next, cut a small piece of cotton t-shirt or diaper--about 4" X 4". Put a quarter-sized puddle of the compound or cleaner on the clots and work it into the cloth a bit. Begin rubbing the area you just sanded. It will take several minutes. Try to rub in a couple of different directions. Do not rub in a circular fashion. You'll see the gloss come back. If you wish, you can use some Scratch-X to increase the gloss, but in any case, apply some Zymol to the area to protect the shine once again. You do already have Scratch-X and Zymol, don't you, John?

This gets to be a compulsion with some people--they don't stop until every guitar they own is so darned shiny...

[squid]

Hey, if you aren't down with Scratch-X and Zymol, you can't stay on the forum. Peter kicks you off! This looks like it'll be a fun little weekend project, although I do wish I was trying this for the first time on something other than a 330 DCM. Say a little prayer, will you?

I have to say that the best thing about hanging out on Rickresource is that you soon learn (thanks to Paul) that no finish flaw is terminal, so I tend not to panic anymore. (Thanks for the condolences, though, Elys. I was mildly annoyed when I saw the imperfection.) If I mess this thing up even more, I know it can still be fixed. Plus, now that it's no longer absolutely "cherry", I can start with the modifications ... heh, heh ...

Thanks for the how-to, Paul. I'll report back when I'm done.

[lyle_from_minneapolis]

I recall John Hall himself recommending the Hercules brand, specifically because of the nature of the foam they use. So I would guess any other brand may have the potential to cause worse damage. If the DCMs do in fact have a "softer" finish, at least in the early years of their long lives, maybe it would be wiser to keep them in their cases when they're not being played.

Of course, I would have a tough time with that. I'd want to show it off, always.

[jingle_jangle]

No problem, John...

Important fact:

The CV coating on most recent ricks is .005-.010" thick, post-buffing, depending upon the area of the body we're addressing. Bottom of the body should be between .005 and .007"; back of neck will be on the thicker side, say, .007-.010". Thickest area is around the heel and just below it on the body back, FYI.

OK, when you're sanding you will only be removing about .001-.002" to take out a light imperfection such as this. So, provided you use the recommended grit of sandpaper and don't sand beyond the "smooth point", you still have some CV under the sanding to buff.

This is general information; not meant to scare you or make you go out and buy an electronic paint thickness gauge...

[squid]

Understood, Paul. I'll proceed with reasonable caution but no fear.

[squid]

Mark, the boxes to my stands feature a big yellow box that says, "Improved! Higher Density Rubber! More padding!" This new improved rubber seems to have been added since Mr. Hall's post on the issue. I still love the functionality of the stands themselves and, as I say, all of my other guitars are just fine.

[jingle_jangle]

Well, here's a good one...I've had my own 660DCM sitting in my office in a 7-instrument cheapo Rockstand, along with six other Ricks from my collection.

Most of these have been on this stand for about 8 months. I do check them occasionally, and whenever they're played they get a respite from their respite.

None of these guitars or basses shows the slightest mark from the foam on the Rockstand. Yes, the foam compresses, but I replace the guitars with greatest care, and they are dropclothed every night.

So it seems like the only hard and fast rule is that there are no hard and fast rules...

[lyle_from_minneapolis]

Indeed. There are no absolutes. ...well, maybe there are...probably? A good deal of the time...perhaps?...

Either way, I still plan to get a few of those Hercules wall hangers...love that design.

[ozover50]

I use Hercules stands (not hangers) as much as possible and I haven't had any issues. However two of my sons guitars have been hanging in a Hercules triple stand for a number of months..... must have a look at them tonight!

[badeggs]

Wrap a plain towel around the hanger part, so that the towel, and not the hanger, contacts the guitar. Not the most-elegant look, but it does the trick.

[elysrand]

That's a great idea, Jeff! My wife saw this thread on my computer, gave it one toss of her head and a quick "Humpf!", and said what we should all be doing is buying a yard of unbleached plain 100%-cotton muslin from her favorite fabric store, cut it into half-inch strips, and wind the strips around the rubbery part of the hangey holders, wrapping in a neat spiral that overlaps itself a quarter-inch each turn. She said that will accomplish the same thing and look very neat too.

So I went and tried it this morning, and it does work quite well!

Now, if I could just teach her how to play....