Any new models in 2004 ??

jps · Post by **jps** » Fri Dec 05, 2003 4:25 pm

"This experimentation is more musically important than endlessly reissueing what has already been done."

I think RIC makes the instruments they do because of their success with these models. For those who need something more or different than what RIC offers us can look to the hundreds of other brands and models of guitars and basses available.

jwr2 · Post by **jwr2** » Fri Dec 05, 2003 4:59 pm

John Hall Wrote:

Plenty of things up our sleeves, although we probably already have too many irons in the fire.

But surely you can appreciate that the 'Net is the last place I'm going to discuss them, based on past experiences!
______________________________

Well John I like pretty much everything you make ... I liked your basses 60's thru present ... I am absolutely thrilled with the 4003s5 models ... the 2000 series was an excellent bolt on neck bass ... the 4004 models are sleek and modern ... the 60's 4001 models are truely magical ... the 70's 4001's are a rock classic ... the 4003 is a thunderous wonderful bass ... the 4002 was ahead of it's time ...

I look forward to any new bass you might come out with ...

philco · Post by **philco** » Fri Dec 05, 2003 5:05 pm

The 650 series is the best sounding guitars that Rickenbacker ever made, except for maybe the 380L which I have not heard. If RIC kept a reissue attitude all the time, the 650 series would not have materialized. A company that keeps making better sounding guitars then they ever did in the past is a company that might survive in the future. Every old Rickenbacker that you treasure was perhaps the state-of-the-art in its day, and my attitude of experimentation is the attitude that created those great old Rickenbackers. I'm not talking fluff like fancy bindings and cosmetic stuff here, but real tonal and mechanical improvements.

jwr2 · Post by **jwr2** » Fri Dec 05, 2003 6:51 pm

yes ... a bass that is derived from the 650 series would be very cool

rickengrowl · Post by **rickengrowl** » Fri Dec 05, 2003 10:24 pm

I have a special wish for European customers.

What was done in Asia ( www.rickenbacker-asia.com ) is a great idea, but unfortunately limited to Asia.

If Rickenbacker Asia could deliver Europe, I would already have a few models on order (essentially 4003 FL, 4003/S5, 4003/S8 and probably 4001C64).

Doing the same in Europe would be wonderful, since currently the choice here is basically limited to 4003 (non-FL) and 4004L. I know 4003/S5 and S8 are discontinued, but it looks like there are still stocks in Asia.

Alternative solution would be to allow non-European dealers to sell new models that are not available here.

Cheers,
JL

bottom4 · Post by **bottom4** » Sat Dec 06, 2003 6:34 am

My only concern about RIC is the volume output (not the sonic volume, but the sheer numbers of instrument produced). Their price point is not a concern – for me. Actually, I’d like for someone to show me where I can get a bass with the versatility and quality of the 4004 that is made in the USA at that price. Just a side note here for a moment – if you love RIC basses and you don’t own a 4004 yet – you are missing something big! I come from an era, as most of us on this forum do, when if a guitar wasn’t made in the USA it wasn’t quality – now I know that isn’t the case anymore and I don’t want to discus that. Rick’s are Red, White & Blue period and to me that means something!

I don’t think JH’s revenue curve is slopping downward at all or anytime in the short run. Grant it, there appeared to be start up problems with the C series and their supply chain that set them back some but things seem to be going every well right now. Is there a chance that RIC is missing market share because of the lack of instruments hanging in stores – possibly. I do wonder at times and yes concerned if RIC is missing the younger/newer player market. (Why concerned? Because I want RIC to be around for at least as long as I am.) After all, that is the future and typically when you lock-in on a guitar, you lock-in. That has been my own experience – I presume it is yours also... So how do you address that? Get your instruments into the hands of young hot stars and I suppose, have a Rick available for the younger generation of players so they can “lock-in” And I guess that means at a lower price point.

It would be interesting to know what the average age of a Rick buyer is. That may give us some indication of the future. .

At the end of the day –I wait with great anticipation for what is coming out next. You know that JH does have something up his sleeve and I can’t wait to see what it is – even if it just a new color for now! I have to say that JH really does seem to have a grasp of what’s going on out there. I mean it guys, for bass players, the 4004 is one hell of a bass and I question why we don’t see any “stars” playing them. Actually, I feel this is the perfect bass for McCartney – but he shouldn’t be the target star for JH – grant it he (Macca) still has market influence – but I believe that RIC needs to get their instruments into the hands of the new players.

Long live Rickenbacker and great Rickenbacker guitars both vintage reissues and new models!

Cheers!

keb · Post by **keb** » Sat Dec 06, 2003 6:52 am

Regarding the 4004 models: when they were first introduced I thought they were a little strange looking, primarily because I was so used to the older 4000-series basses with their pickguards and chrome everywhere and what-have-you. But I've really been warming up to them lately, mostly because of the pics I've seen posted here. Very elegant and clean looking, and the simple electronics appeals to me. Hopefully I'll be able to try one out someday.

Also, a question regarding pickup placement on the 4004: on the older models it looked like the bridge pickup was in about the same location as it is on the 4001/4003, but it looks like on the newer models, that pickup looks like it's a little closer to the bridge (and obviously the neck pickup has been moved back)... is that so or do my eyes deceive me?

twangs · Post by **twangs** » Sat Dec 06, 2003 7:12 am

I have one of the few 4004LK that has been released so far - #9 in a run of 60. Does anyone know how this bass compares to the other instruments in the 4004 series - aside from the obvious (carved top, 3 humbuckers, etc) How do the necks compare. Has anyone heard when the remainder of the 4004LKs will be produced?

jwr2 · Post by **jwr2** » Sat Dec 06, 2003 7:38 am

Yes they moved the pickups ... probably because they went to bubinga fret board, the old maple fret board was brighter sounding.

I heard that Ric lost their wood carving guy ... so until they replace him the LK's are on hold??? or is that just a rumor???

philco · Post by **philco** » Sat Dec 06, 2003 8:00 am

Andy, the big pro players play for big money, and there are plenty of other mass manufacturers out there with CNC manufacturing facilities and cheap labor that can load a pop music star's pockets with money. Paul Stanley and Gene Simmons now play Silvertone. Get the picture?

I have a RIC 4004, and it sounds killer if you like earthquake bass, which I do. I would not recommend it for a John Entwistle stylist, however. I am having neck issues, which I will blame on the former owner for not tightening the truss rods properly as the neck aged after manufacturing. Anyway, it is far too expensive for young bass players.

Young players will almost never buy a 4004L, even if they were hanging in stores, because Peavey (for just one example) has the Grind 4 NTB neck thru bass available with 2 big fat humbuckers and exotic wood for under $500 street price, including the price of a decent case. Washburn has jumped into the low cost neck-thru bass war as well. Rickenbacker has been the most common high end neck-thru bass for decades, but Peavey definitely intends on putting an end to that, by addressing the young and building brand loyalty. Peavey also offers a greatly improved line of bass amps that perfectly match their new neck-thru basses. A low price will probably not sway the old bass players with more disposable income and with premium amps already purchased that match their Rickenbacker basses, but their buying days are growing shorter each year that passes.

A 6500 bass built on the 650D pattern might be a viable alternative. A few young players would up the ante to get into the Rickenbacker mystique. It could also support the sales of 650 guitars, and vice versa. P-basses and Strats have had this symbiotic relationship for decades. Rickenbacker separated the guitar and bass body styles for the most part, so there is a lack of mutual style support there. I don't know if that affects sales though.

I think the chrome control knob panel should be dropped if RIC decides to offer a 6500 bass though. As Mr. Hall states, bass players are more progressive than guitarists these days, and most new style basses are doing away with pickguards and control plates for a pure smooth surface and a simple sleek design. The 4004 got that part right. Now RIC needs a less expensive entry level bass if they want to build brand loyalty among the young players. Peavey is after these kids in a big way, and some of the stuff Peavey is building now is definitely good. The 650D is the entry level RIC guitar that addresses those young players. A 6500 bass might create a symbiotic relationship similar to the P-bass and Strat.

I guess it is impossible to ever expect any more amplifiers from RIC. Fender and Peavey seem to be the only companies that can pull off manufacturing instruments and amps in a big way. Peavey outdoes Fender one better by being a bigtime PA manufacturer as well. Amp technology has recently skyrocketed, much more than in guitars and basses. I bet that right now Fender pays several times the money in amp R&D than they do on instrument R&D. RIC probably doesn't want to wade into that battle arena, but only Mr. Hall could answer that one. I know who I would be talking to if I was an instrument manufacturer wanting to break into the amp market.

rickenbrother · Post by **rickenbrother** » Sun Dec 07, 2003 12:28 pm

Jeff Rath said: "The 4002 was ahead of it's time" ...
Makes me dream about a 4002/5 ...

jnbass · Post by **jnbass** » Sun Dec 07, 2003 2:10 pm

4002/5 76 Anniversary LTD model!

rickenbrother · Post by **rickenbrother** » Sun Dec 07, 2003 2:48 pm

A Shadow 4002/5 Anniversary LTD model with triangle fretboard inlays !!!

beatlefan · Post by **beatlefan** » Sun Dec 07, 2003 4:24 pm

with REAL crushed pearl inlays....I'll take one of those , along with a Shadow 4008....

rickenbrother · Post by **rickenbrother** » Sun Dec 07, 2003 4:52 pm

Chris, you just put the icing on the dream bass of Jared and myself ! I love the idea. I think John Hall said that if he could find a well made, feasable crushed pearl product he would use it for the inlays...
...makes me want to start crushing up some mother of pearl and...