4000 series bass setup specs please

philco · Post by **philco** » Sat Dec 06, 2003 8:33 am

I am addressing the sprung neck on my 4004L. I have tightened the truss rods to where the neck is straight between the nut and 12th fret. There is excess curvature between the 12th fret and heel. I have managed to reduce that somewhat. My saddles are as low as they can go without buzzing on the high frets. My action height, at the 12th fret, is 4/32 on the G string and 5/32 on the E string. This is still a bit high. I would like to pull it down to at least 3/32 and 4/32 respectively. I have a neck straightening project in the works, when I have time to have a special jig built.

I was wondering how low other 4000 series owners have been able to get the action on their basses. The action on both my OLP SB4 and OLP MM2 are 3/32 (6/64) on the G string and 3.5/32 (7/64) on the E string at the 12th fret. I got those actions quite easily without any fret leveling, and they allow rather aggressive playing without excessive buzzing. A Rickenbacker bass should be able to go at least that low, shouldn't it? I am wondering just how low of an action I can get and still allow for moderately aggressive playing without excessive buzzing on my 4004L. I don't want to turn the neck straightening project into a time consuming crusade. I will be happy with moderately low action, so I want to know when to call it quits relative to what an average 4000 series bass can achieve.

dave4004 · Post by **dave4004** » Sat Dec 06, 2003 10:43 am

My 4004 was 7/64 on the E, 6/64 on the G at the 12th, that's my standard on all my basses. So yes, it's certainly possible, if you can get that neck issue resolved.

philco · Post by **philco** » Sat Dec 06, 2003 11:55 am

Thanks for the info, Dave. My OLP's intonated the best overall at the same action height that you use, and it would be a good idea for me to have the same action height on the Rickenbacker. I have found that my basses would tend to go sharp above the 12th fret when I had higher action. This was with the saddles reset to correct intonation at the 12th fret. I try to get the action height and neck curvature to give me the best overall intonation from the nut to the highest fret. I try to get all notes within a narrow plus or minus window. Using the lowest possible action also causes intonation problems, besides the excessive fret buzz. It just so happens that the exact same action heights that you quoted were where everything snapped into place together. I never paid attention to this until I got my VS-1 tuner, as the Korg GA-30 doesn't have enough resolution and stability to make it readily apparent. I just set intonation at the 12th fret and let it go at that. If you're not careful, the accuracy of the VS-1 can make you a slave to fine tuning. I have also noticed that with lower action, the strings would keep vibrating too much after I released the note. It's about as annoying as fret buzz. Easy pickers wouldn't be bothered, I guess. Therefore, I don't worship at the altar of really low action like some seem to do, but that high action on my 4004L really wears me out quickly if I have to play high on the neck.

jwr2 · Post by **jwr2** » Sat Dec 06, 2003 2:52 pm

my 4004L was doing that a little ... but you have to consider that I converted it to a 5 string bass ... but I tightened up the truss rod and it is now 1/4" B and 3/16" G at the 20th fret ... not bad for a five string. My 2030 was doing the same and I got the same results after truss rod adjustment ...

My blue 4003s5 is awesome ... 1/8" at the 20th fret ... this neck has a little bow ... but the action is actually highest at the 10th fret and so from the 12th fret up it bows up about 1/32" at both ends of the fret board ...

My Schecter C-5 has a really nice neck as well 35" scale and 24 frets ... it's under 1/4" at the 24th fret

philco · Post by **philco** » Sat Dec 06, 2003 11:15 pm

I was taught by a guy that mostly does acoustic guitars that the truss rod should be adjusted so that the string buzz would be approximately equal all over the neck. A guy that plays hard should have a higher action with more relief, and a guy that plays easy should have a lower action with less neck relief. Some guys adjust their action height by raising or lowering the string saddles, but that really affects only the upper frets where you spend little time. The truss rod has more to do with lower fret buzz adjustment. I spend more time and make more adjustments on the truss rod than anything else when I get a new instrument, because the neck bends into position very slowly, especially maple. Maple may be an incredibly strong wood, but it is not very stable and the truss rod needs to be constantly adjusted as the wood ages and stabilizes. Anybody who thinks they are getting well aged wood these days in a guitar that costs under $2000 is kidding themself.

My new OLP SB4 is about 4/32", or 1/8", at the 24th fret on the E string. My strings are almost parallel to the fretboard from the 12th to 24th frets. It got three truss rod adjustments the first day I owned it as the neck slowly moved into position from where it had been when I got it. I sight down the necks now to check for excessive bow, or lack of bow, but I never measure neck relief with a feeler gauge after I set my instrument set up right. If the neck relief changes, it means the action height has changed, so I put action height back to where it belongs with the truss rod, and the neck relief automatically falls into place. Actually, the G string saddle is down almost as far as it will go, and no string buzz with 3/32" at the E string 24th fret.

gothbin · Post by **gothbin** » Sun Dec 07, 2003 7:10 am

I've had my 4003 at 1/16" but that was a bit to rattle-ly for me. Now I have it at about 3/32" - as all my basses. Beside messuring with gauches, I also feel if the response, and the tension of the strings - kinda hard to explain, stays ok.To my feeling a bit tension, like a bow of an arrow, is needed to get good sustain and tone. This is often difficult to achieve with old Fenders, cheapo copies and such. More often the better the bass is by design, the easier this is to achieve.

Also the thin necks on some "super" basses tend to play light, but rely on active eq's and such in order to get tone. I once had a Ibanez soundgear, one of the first. It would play light, but needed weekly adjustments and the tone from itself was less then ******. After nine months I sold it again, to buy a P-Bass - as I could not afford a Ric at that time.......

Also in Europe, many bassplayers like beside the Ibanez Basses the german Warwicks. I think they can look nice, but I don't like the concept of oiled wood. I also can';t get a good tone from it, but that can be me. I like laquer on fretboards too, not everyone's choice either. Thats why I like Ric 4003's and my Iron Maiden P-Bass with laquered maple fretboard.

But he, I'm only a Dutchman, what would I know?

philco · Post by **philco** » Sun Dec 07, 2003 9:11 am

I can recommend Dan Erlewine's book, "How To Make Your Electric Guitar Play Great!". U.S.Retail price is $19.95, and it is recommended as "almost indispensable" by Bassist magazine. The only down side is that you will not see a single Rickenbacker in the entire book, but you will see almost everything else. He includes action setups on many professional player's guitars, and I was amazed by the widely varying actions among all the players. It all goes to show that a lot of personal preferences are involved, and the guitar or bass player who is serious had better learn how to do his own setups or suffer a dampening effect on his abilities.

Or you could be like Paul McCartney and have a hugely successful career in two bands before getting your Beatle bass totally squared away.

rictified · Post by **rictified** » Mon Dec 08, 2003 2:26 pm

I had that same thing happen to me once. I put some much heavier gauge strings on a Ric 4001 and never bothered to adjust the Truss Rods. (this was pre-ric forum) The neck bent a little bit below the twelth fret and I almost ruined the bass trying to get it out. This was the bass that I had to have the truss rods redone and all that. I have never really succeded in entirely getting rid of that bow, I can have the rest of the neck flat if I want but that bow below the 12th fret still is there a little bit. JH once mentioned that you can install Truss rods from the body end like on the early 80's 4003's, I might try that, I'll have to have a new block made, but that is the only thing I can think of to take it out entirely, good luck because I haven't succeed yet, but I like my action a little high anyway so it may not bother me as much as it would someone who likes low action.

philco · Post by **philco** » Tue Dec 09, 2003 2:21 am

Maple is a wood that takes a "set" rather easily. If you move it in the opposite direction and heat it to over 140 degrees Fahrenheit, it will be set back. My 4004L is black and that means it soaks up heat like a magnet, so it isn't good for gigging outdoors in the direct sunlight. My MM2 is all light maple neck.

So, if your maple neck ever gets too hot to touch for a long period of time (above 135 degrees F is too hot to touch), you are putting a permanent set in the wood. Maple is routinely steamed and bent into shape in the furniture industry and other places, like barrel staves. I'm going to make a pressure jig just for the purpose of putting precise bows into maple necks, then you soak it with heat lamps overnight and let it cool in the jig for a day. Wrap the parts you don't want affected in reflective aluminum foil. A lot of luthiers would probably want a well made tool like that. If a maple neck was straight, and the warping was not the result of humidity change, you should be able to get it back straight.

philco · Post by **philco** » Tue Dec 09, 2003 2:31 am

Bob, what I might try is to simply take the strings off, Tighten the truss rods until the neck near the heel is slightly backbowed, insulate and wrap the neck with aluminum foil between the nut and 12th fret, and heat soak it overnight with heat lamps. No need for a jig, but if the neck between the 12th fret and nut ever got hot it would have a nasty backbow because the truss rods would have it backbowed rather badly while the bent section was being heated. Proceed with caution, I would say. Knowing me, I'll probably try it. I don't have a woodshop to make the fancy adjustable jig I have in mind. If I am successful, I'll let you know and you might want to try it on your 4001. We're not talking major correction here, only a degree or two of angle is in the bent part.

jwr2 · Post by **jwr2** » Tue Dec 09, 2003 6:07 am

anybody ever change truss rods on a 4003?

it looks like it shouldn't be too difficult

ojobob2 · Post by **ojobob2** » Tue Dec 09, 2003 9:55 am

Jeff what do you mean? put new rods in a 4003 or change 4001 rods to a 4003

jwr2 · Post by **jwr2** » Tue Dec 09, 2003 10:08 am

put new ones in a 4003 ... it looks like it shouldn't be too hard ...

ojobob2 · Post by **ojobob2** » Tue Dec 09, 2003 10:11 am

yeah i think youd unscrew the bolts at the body end then pull em out the head end

dano · Post by **dano** » Tue Dec 09, 2003 11:41 am

It appears that you first un-screw the neck end bolts and slide the rod through the body end so you have access to those bolts. I'm no expert, but it appears to be an easy task. For a more detailed picture go to www.the-music-connection.com. Mike has a picture of a 4003 truss rod in the parts section (shows the bolts on both ends). Jeff, does one of your 4003's need the truss rods changed?