Is 2 Volume and 2 Tone the 'best' way to go?

[chrisjin]

I know a lot of people like don't like to alter their Rics from the stock condition they were in when they left the factory, and while I appreciate that viewpoint, I acquired a 4001 earlier this year that's already been through the chop shop so keeping things stock is no longer an option.

I got to thinking about the volume/tone options. I've never had a bass with 2V & 2T before, and wanted to know if that setup is the most versatile or if there is a better option to consider.

Right of the top of my head I thought about 1 Volume, 2 Tone, a Balance control, and eliminate the pickup toggle. On the one hand this would eliminate having to fiddle with 2 different volume controls to get the balance you wanted since you'd have a dedicated Balance knob, but on the other hand you'd lose the ability to do a quick toggle flick to solo a pickup. Instead you'd have to turn the Balance control all the way towards whichever pickup you wanted to single out.

Just wondering what kind of layout others think might be useful. Let the opinions flow....

[heinpete]

I never had a need for the toggle switch during a bass solo in terms of speed switching between the PUs. I also use the tone knobs very rarely (if ever). The most versatile wiring for my Ricks is the VVT mod on my 4004. With this the nuances of sound by just slight reducing the vol of one PU, that wiring is also very effective and after about 3 clock strike reduction the one PU is hardly active (maybe due to the fact that I installed log pots). A toggle switch only gives the "all or nothing" option (specially on the stock 4004 wiring).
However frankly speeking, the 4001 wiring for me is somehow obsolete as I run my bass all pots 100% open through a pre-amp, which gives me all sounds I need. I would consider two mixable vol knobs as completely sufficient.

Anyway I mainly produce my sound differences by different finger playing style or picking position. Believe me, by this already the Rick can deliver me any sound I like!

For the looks of a 4001/3, the regular pick guard with 4 knobs and toggle switch is nice, as probably many people are used to it.

[ajish4]

Ah,

Nice thread, great question!

I've had other peoples "creations" and I have to say that I like the original factory setup best.

My ONLY wish is that instead of a toggle switch to flip between the pickups, there was a blend knob so you could dial in a mix of the pickups.

My ALEMRIC (see picutre) has that and I love it. I just don't like the LOOK of it. BUT, from a playability point of view, it is great.

I also have a 1974 4001 that someone messed with the wiring and made it VTT and I HATE IT. One master volume knob for both pickups, yuch. I'm in the middle of correcting that issue. I'm trying to figure out how to make ONE position of the toggle switch a KILL switch so between sets, all I have to do is throw the switch and keep my volume settings alone.

But when it comes down to it, I like the factory settings the best.

[jwr2]

I love the VVT wiring on my 4004 ... but every time I have played a rewired 4001/4003 they sucked ... the toggle and 2 vol 2 tone works quite nicely on a 4001/4003 ...

[gray]

I haven't had cause to do any rewiring of either of my Ricks. All I do is (with a few exceptions) turn everything all the way up and keep the toggle in the middle.
Some previous owner of my 4001 did, however, configure the knobs to how they thought it made the most sense. Bass in the front, treble in the back. I'm going to change it back to stock setup when I get my new pickgaurd.

[jps]

Unless you are running stereo I find two tone controls unneccesary, so VVT is the way to go. The toggle is nice for quick changes but usually not needed. Better to have a switch for bypassing the .0047 cap like the current 4003 has.

Here is a setup I did for a while on my July '73 4001. VVT with cap bypass switch.

[rickaddict]

I don't see any reason to mess with the stock config. Granted, Chris says that his Rick has been through the chop shop and stock is no longer an option.

So you can't return it to stock, Chris? Why not? Does it still have two pickups? RIC sells a replacement wiring harness complete with pots, caps and switch on the RIC website for 60 bucks (although they are temporarily unavailable!)

I like having the ability to adjust volume or tone individually. I like to roll off the vol on the neck pickup and sometimes roll off the tone a little on the bridge pickup. The switch allows me to quickly solo the bridge pickup, then return to both without disturbing my settings. And if I need to set my Rick down while its still plugged in, I switch to the bridge pickup and roll the volume off. I'm not against mods, I just can't think of any alteration that could improve upon the stock configuration. It's versatile and easy to understand.

"Some previous owner of my 4001 did, however, configure the knobs to how they thought it made the most sense. Bass in the front, treble in the back. I'm going to change it back to stock setup when I get my new pickgaurd."

Uhhh Robert? Am I reading this wrong? This is the way the 4001 came stock from the factory.

[chrisjin]

Thanks for the opinions guys, I appreciate it.

I've had other peoples "creations" and I have to say that I like the original factory setup best.

My ONLY wish is that instead of a toggle switch to flip between the pickups, there was a blend knob so you could dial in a mix of the pickups.

Ok, this is what I was thinking last night when I posted. But if you have a blend knob, isn't having 2 volume knobs redundant? You have 4 knobs on your AlemRic.... so it's 1V, 2T, and blend? (and a quick side question: aren't the Alembic pickups insanely expensive?)

I also have a 1974 4001 that someone messed with the wiring and made it VTT and I HATE IT.

I can understand not liking that setup if there's no blend knob.

So you can't return it to stock, Chris? Why not?

Yes, I could return it to factory specs. I definitely need a new pickguard anyway, but I was just wondering what other wiring configurations I might consider.

I like having the ability to adjust volume or tone individually. I like to roll off the vol on the neck pickup and sometimes roll off the tone a little on the bridge pickup.

I'm still not convinced I like the idea of 2 volume knobs instead of a blend knob. I have this setup on an old cheap bass and I like it, although it's hard to get a nice 50/50 balance. I always assumed it was because everything about the bass was cheap, including the pots, and that if the parts were upgraded it would be easier to dial in the desired balance. Maybe not?

I like having 2 separate tone controls on the Ric, although I find the bleed-thru effect to be extremely annoying. They basically act as a single tone control because it you roll off the tone on one pickup it affects the other one as well.

[jwr2]

the blend works better with active electronics ...

a good active setup is 5 knobs ... a blend, a master volume, and a 3 band tone circuit ...

[heinpete]

They basically act as a single tone control because it you roll off the tone on one pickup it affects the other one as well.

That is probably only true for the 4001 wiring w/o cap, otherwise (with cap) the circuit of the PUs are completely separated and act totally individual.

[rickaddict]

I like having 2 separate tone controls on the Ric, although I find the bleed-thru effect to be extremely annoying. They basically act as a single tone control because it you roll off the tone on one pickup it affects the other one as well.

If it were wired in the stock configuration this would never be a problem!

[chrisjin]

That is probably only true for the 4001 wiring w/o cap, otherwise (with cap) the circuit of the PUs are completely separated and act totally individual.

If it were wired in the stock configuration this would never be a problem!

I'm sorry, I wasn't clear. When I was talking about the tone control bleed-thru I was talking about current models. I have two here right now and it's very apparent. Put the toggle in the middle with all controls maxed and and play a root-5th-octave power chord and everything rings beautifully. Roll off one tone control and the treble disappears from both pickups.

[ajish4]

Ok, this is what I was thinking last night when I posted. But if you have a blend knob, isn't having 2 volume knobs redundant? You have 4 knobs on your AlemRic.... so it's 1V, 2T, and blend? (and a quick side question: aren't the Alembic pickups insanely expensive?)

Correct, on both counts! The bass is wired 1V, 2T, and the blend...but the "tone" dials are "Q" filters.

If you are new to the world of "Q filters, here is an explanation : To quote Mica at Alembic, "the range is from 350Hz-6KHz. Wherever you set the filter, only frequencies below that cutoff point are passed." The Q switch works in concert with the filter and provides an 8db boost at the cut off frequency you've set with the filter. When the switch is off you get a flat response on to the filter setting. Again to quote Mica, "the Q affects mainly the attack portion of the note". It kind of sounds like a Wah pedal with eccho. LoL.

As for "insanely expensive", I guess you could say that. The exact setup I have in my Alemric was $1600.00 for the pickups, wiring & electronics. BUT, that wasn't the hard part. Trying to GET THEM was. After 3 years of trying to nail my AlemRic, the gods smiled on me and I managed to get the bass I was after WITH the Alembic pickups for a little less than the pickups alone. LONG STORY. Should you feel inclined, here is the thread...
http://www.rickresource.com/phpBB3/view ... it=alemric

[gray]

Uhhh Robert? Am I reading this wrong? This is the way the 4001 came stock from the factory.

Actually, I meant the reverse. They're aligned bass on the top, side by side, and treble on the bottom, side by side, instead of bass in front and treble in back. Sorry about that.

[johnallg]

One thing to keep in mind about the VVT configuration is both pickups get the same tone contour. I personally don't like that constriction; I like to change the tone on either pickup independently. Thats why I did the concentric pot mod to my 4004C to have all 4 controls.