620 bridge problems

[rickenrocker]

So my bridge buzzing continues, and I've tried just about everything I have read or that I can think of. At this point I've stretched springs, and adjusted all 6 pieces from sharp to in-tune position, keeping tension on the screws. I've even taken it apart, turned the bridge around and gone through the same routine. I've checked the 4 bridge screws at every step, and always adjusted against the tension of the springs.

I remember the pieces fitting together very tight when I first started troubleshooting a single string (I thought I was going to break my allen wrench at first), but after much adjustment, I see gaps inbetween them all now, and I have several strings buzzing. I don't know what to try at this point except to toss this bridge and install a new one.

I assume the string slots need to be filed, is this difficult? If I were to just dive in, I would lower the bridge and try to find the natural resting point of the strings, but that would just be my guess. What is the best way to do this? I assume I can get the right files at stewart mcdonalds, or maybe somewhere else?

Any help is greatly appreciated. I love this guitar to death and am determined to fight it's wonky mechanics till my last breath if need be.

Thanks in advance!

[beatlefreak]

Are you certain it is the bridge causing the buzz? I've heard of people getting a rattle from the ball end of a string where it isn't seated well in the tailpiece. I've had a buzz from a string coming from the area between the bridge and tailpiece. Make sure your selector switch isn't loose and rattling. I've also had a buzz coming from where the TRC doesn't sit exactly flush against the headstock (a small piece of duct tape on the back of the TRC solved that). Try and determine if the buzz is actually coming from the bridge.

[rickenrocker]

I really have no idea, and I wish I knew how to tell. I cranked all the adjustments as far as I could so they wouldn't move and still had buzzing. I made sure the 4 height screws were ok, tension on all of them (all tightened to position). I used a capo just to make sure I wasn't hearing the nut (but it is coming from the bridge area anyway). I changed the buzzing g string to make sure it wasn't the string, and I seated it as best I know how, I put the hole facing up/down, it seems odd that the 2 wires would have tension on them from being seated, but sideways the slot is too wide, so this makes the most sense. I don't know how to see in there any better, I guess the string could be touching the side of the tailpiece, but I can't tell.

It's so annoying too, I had everything perfect, neck, action, and intonation set, but there was still a bit of relief in the neck after a couple days of letting it rest, so I made one small adjustment, then buzzing, and weee around and around we go!

[beatlefreak]

Start by eliminating the things that aren't the problem. If you're getting buzzing on open strings, play one and then press your finger to the front of the truss rod cover. Does it stop? If not, play the string again and grab the toggle swiitch. Still there? Play the string again, and place your palm across the strings between the bridge and tailpiece. If it's still there, you might have to install a new set of strings to check the ball ends seating in the 'R' tailpiece. If you've still got it, play a string that buzzes, then put your finger on each tuning post (front and back). Remove your truss rod cover and make sure both truss rods are tight (adjustment nuts snugged).

If you do all this and there's still a buzz, at least you've eliminated the tuners, TRC, truss rods, switch, and ball ends of strings from being the source. Check each of the volume and tone controls by touching them to see if the buzz goes away. Press on the pickguard to make sure it isn't vibrating against the body. After these checks, about the only things left are the bridge, nut and frets.

[jingle_jangle]

Be sure that it's coming from the bridge.

Here's a trick that I use:

I take a 3' piece of clear vinyl tubing (otherwise known as "aquarium" tubing and available at pet shops as well as hardware stores) and I, er, stick it in my ear. Then I play the strings, one by one, with the guitar flat on my bench, moving the other end of the tubing from nut to bridge. Once I've tracked it down to an area (nut buzzes are simple; bridge buzzes need further isolation), I can then take steps to rectify things.

This "poor luthier's stethoscope" has saved me lots of time, and costs a couple of bucks.

You can also use a mechanic's stethoscope: http://toolsandmore.us/index.asp?PageAc ... ProdID=226.

Here's what I've found: Substantially more than half the string buzzes I've found are at the nut end, usually caused by a mis-filed nut (the high point of the string slot should be at the edge facing the body). The bridge buzzes are almost always caused by a loose saddle or two. You can shim the saddle with a tiny piece of shim stock or aluminum foli or stainless tape that is sold at the hardware store for patching ducts, and at auto parts stores for patching holes.

[rickenrocker]

Thanks a ton, I will try your suggestions


, you guys are awesome.

[jingle_jangle]

Dude, your emoticon has nystagmus.

[rickenrocker]

I know, poor guy!


So I've eliminated just about everything you suggested Beatlefreak, which leads me to Paul's post. I'll pick up some tubing tomorrow from the hardware store. I also ordered that nifty doo-dad (I believe this is the official name for the tool) that you posted. How could I not, at a few bucks (I like to round down)? Just look how cool it is!

In the meantime, I thought I would double-check the neck and in my efforts to just get it flat, I'm a bit stumped. The high-e side flattens very easily, and with about the same amount of turn on the low-e side there is still relief. But it gets weird when I try to flatten it out further, while leaving the high-e side alone. The high-e side gets backbow. I panic, of course, and take the pressure back off the low-e side. This can't be good, right?

Anyway, further investigation ensues once I get one of these new-fangled listening contraptions.

[jingle_jangle]

If you are tightening/loosening the truss rod nuts enough to see immediate changes in the bow of the neck, chances are that you are tightening and loosening too far. You should only go 1/2 turn max in either direction and then wait a minimum of 24 hours fdor things to settle in before repeating as necessary. Sure, it's possible to do it quicker, but you want a good benchmark setting that stays long-term.

[rickenrocker]

I never do more than 1/2 turn in a single day, but I am seeing results right away, including this backbow when tightening the opposing low-e rod.

I'm tempted to loosen them both all the way and let the neck rest for a couple of days at this point. Do you think that is a good idea?

[jingle_jangle]

Absolutely. For a rest and a baseline from which to proceed. But de-tune the guitar, too, at the same time. After it's rested a day or two, just snug up the nuts until you feel a bit of resistance. Tune the guitar to pitch, then let it sit a day and measure bow or relief. You can then proceed from there.

You are using Rickenbacker standard strings, aren't you? It's best to have these on for a baseline setting, too.

[rickenrocker]

yes, rick strings


I'm going to be patient, I even dragged out the old SG. Fun, not my 620 though.

[rickenrocker]

Ok, I'm putting a bit of resistance on the rods now, and tuning the strings to pitch.

I'm not sure if this is normal, but after the neck rested with no string tension (it's been near 2 days), the neck on the g side is straight, but the d side has a bit of relief.

Anyway, we'll see what it looks like in a day or so.

[johnallg]

The beauty of two rods is you can turn them independently (both don't have to be the same number of turns) in order to get both sides of the neck straight or where you want it.

[rickenrocker]

I just don't see how I can flatten this neck. I think I could loosen the g side rod completely and still have backbow with the d side barely flat. Is this normal?

The stethoscope showed up today, and even though it was only 7 bucks, I'm not sure it was worth the premium. Maybe it's just because I'm awkwardly trying to hold the guitar in the position required to recreate the buzz, while picking, maybe holding frets and still trying to hold the metal piece around different areas of the guitar...but when I can recreate the buzzing under these conditions, I still hear it everywhere.

It seems like every adjustment I make, creates a different subtle buzzing while maybe solving another. I'm pretty sure I can rule out fret buzz, and I think the nut is ok, though it looks cut wide, when the listener was on it, it was quieter here if anything.

The 6 string adjustments are tightened as much as possible with no springs, the bridge up high, and the 4 bridge crews I can tighten, and even though they loosen back up, while tight I still hear it.

Is buzzing unavoidable on these guitars? I can definitely hear it through the amp, and it isn't pretty. I really want the guitar I purchased back, and I'm willing to try just about anything short of pawning this guitar on an unsuspecting buyer so I can buy another one.

Right now, the worst buzz is when EA are both fretted at the 2nd fret and I play them together. Does this narrow anything down? They are fine open.