Brian Jones and Rickenbackers

[JakeK]

I've noticed on the main site here that Brian Jones used Rics. This I didn't hear, but recently, I've been listening to the Stones, and I think I know which tunes Brian used a Ric on:

Get Off of My Cloud
The Singer Not the Song
Blue Turns to Grey
19th Nervous Breakdown
Sad Day
Mother's Little Helper
Stupid Girl
Flight 505
Out of Time
What to Do
Lady Jane (live)
Who's Been Sleeping Here?

Can you hear the jangle? It may well could be my ear decieving me, but who knows?

[phlemmy]

If Brian actually played guitar on that many songs I'd be surprised.

[eggman]

Howdy,

As a huge 'Stones fan I'm embarrased to admit that I'm not sure which songs Brian used his Ricky 360/12. "The Singer, not the Song" surely must be one. Unfortunately Brian is painfully out of tune! Nice little song though.
I don't hear a 12 on "!9th" or "MLH". I've seen concert photos of Brian playing a FG 360 in Italy. Who can forget the famous photo inside the "High Tides and Green Grass" album wherein a pale Brian is holding his 360?
No doubt, Rickenbacker was a big part of the British Invasion; it's the main reason I cultivated such a strong interest in them, which continues to this day. Chime on!

Eggman

PS: I've read that Keef bought an old Rickenbacker from Ted Newman Jones while the 'Stones were recording Exiles in the south of France. Now what model, I don't know.

[lennon211]

If Brian actually played guitar on that many songs I'd be surprised.

First off, those songs are from the most productive period and most creative of Brian Jones' period with the Stones. He might not have been playing guitar on them all, but he's definitely there. Pretty much from late 65 through the release of Between the Buttons is Brian's best and most consistent work/effort. It wasn't really until late '66 that he became totally consumed by the image of being a rock star and all of the trappings thereof.

Now, as to the use of his Ric. It's been my impression, and I have looked into it a lot, that that was primarily a stage guitar and not a guitar that he used in the studio unless for experimentation to which he was certainly prone. They played a guitar based arrangement of "Lady Jane" on the '66 tour that he in all likelihood used it on. If there were other songs on the set list that required a 12 string sound and he wasn't already disposed to keyboards or harmonica, then he'd be using that one. That could mean Mother's Little Helper then too. Otherwise it's a safe bet that he was on either a '65 Firebird VII or a '66 Firebird III with the P-90's. After '66, they didn't tour again for 3 years and by then, he was gone. In the studio, he was probably using his Epiphone 12 string acoustic for songs requiring such an instrument, when he was playing guitar.

As a musician, Brian Jones was certainly unpredictable and often unreliable. He was limited to a role of instrumentalist in the band that he founded after a coup by Richards, Jagger, and Oldham, thanks in part to his own actions. He couldn't cope once he lost a lot of his standing within the group. He led a self-destructive life, culminating in a suspicious death. Despite that, he was a good, natural musician and at his best moments a great blues player and rhythm guitarist and harmonica player. For those that don't know, much of the harmonica on the early Stones records is him...not Jagger. And also a good way to determine if he's playing lead is to look at the style: Chuck Berry type= Keith...blues playing ala "Time is On My Side"=Brian.

[36012c63]

That could be him on the 12-string on "It's All Over Now".

[JakeK]

You can get a good jangle on It's All Over Now, but on the original recording, Brian used his Vox Mark III Teardrop.

[lennon211]

That could be him on the 12-string on "It's All Over Now".

There is no 12 string on "It's All Over Now". The only 12 strings in the group's possession would have been acoustics. The arpeggios and solo are Richards his Casino and the rhythm and large, chiming chords are Jones, in all likelihood on his Gretsch which was still probably his main guitar when it was recorded. To me it sounds much more like Hi-Lo Trons than Vox single coils.

[eggman]

Howdy,

"It's All Over Now" sounds like Keef is using his Harmony, like on "Around and Around" and "Under the Boardwalk". It doesn't sound like the Casino, but how could I know for sure? I think Matt is correct that "The Singer, Not the Song" is likely an acoustic 12 and out of tune, no matter who's playing it I'll add again. Either way, the Harmony Meteor (I think that was the model Keef had) and the Epi Casino are similar tonally-both totally hollow w/ single-coils. I'll stick with my edumacated guess that Keef used a Casino after "It's All Over Now".
Come to think of it, I don't hear any Ricky 12s on 'Stones recordings. "Dandelion" comes closest to my ears, but the guitars sounds acoustic. I understand Brian was fairly involved in the "Satanic Majesties" sessions. I think a Ricky 12 would've been good on many of those songs; it's a shame Brian didn't employ one on those songs. YMMV.

[JakeK]

I don't know for sure that Brian could have used that 1993 he's been pictured with on any recordings. "Get Off of My Cloud" is the only one that comes to mind.

I'm shocked Brian had the '65 360/12 as JUST a stage guitar! But, he MAY have used it for a good bit of "Aftermath," certainly "Mother's Little Helper". My friend and I were playing that song two weeks ago, and he played that lick on my 660/12. Sounded JUST like the record!

Brian Jones is definately one of the best musicians out there. He was the only Stone ever pictured with a Ric guitar. Thanks to him, we can classify The Stones as a Ric band.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but HAVE Keith, Mick Taylor, Ronnie Wood or even Mick Jagger ever been seen with Rics? I know Bill Wyman's said to have used a 4005 (which, personally, I think a 4001S or a RM 1999 would have suited him better because Bill and Charlie said he had tiny hands).

[jwr2]

The Stones were actually a good band before Brian Jones became a drug casualty ...

then after he left they became a sloppy bunch of rockers ...

Also some of the older Stones albums has some top notch studio players playing some of the parts ...

[sloop_john_b]

I know Bill Wyman's said to have used a 4005 (which, personally, I think a 4001S or a RM 1999 would have suited him better because Bill and Charlie said he had tiny hands).

Not sure what you mean by that? They have the same neck.

[randyz]

I'm no authority on the Rolling Stones (although I've read several books about Brian Jones) and I hate to further muddy the waters (pun fully intended), but it's fairly well-known that Brian also owned a white Vox Teardrop 12-string. I've actually seen a photo of Keith Richards playing it.

[JakeK]

I know Bill Wyman's said to have used a 4005 (which, personally, I think a 4001S or a RM 1999 would have suited him better because Bill and Charlie said he had tiny hands).

Not sure what you mean by that? They have the same neck.

He'd have looked cooler with it than the 4005, but then again, I'm a 60's 4001S fan. Plus, I've never played a 4005 to know how the neck is.

[jps]

...I've never played a 4005 to know how the neck is.

You will fall in love if you get the chance to play one!

[eggman]

Howdy,

Jake: I thought Brian played a Sitar on "MLH". It'd be great if he had used a Ricky 12! Perhaps so. As for the rest of the 'Stones, Keef bought one from Ted Newman Jones (his future first touring guitar tech for the '72 Tour) in '70 or '71 when Jones visited him in Nellcote. I don't know what model though, but it was a solidbody. A Capri, maybe?
Keef: "You the guy with the Rickenbacker?"
TNJ: "Yeah"
Keef: "C'mon in!"
The dialog went something like that. Keef had just had many of his guitars stolen and was in tears, according to Ted Jones. Sounds like a great RickResource research project; let's find out what model of Rick Keef bought in France.

Eggman

PS: Jones said it wasn't a common model..hmm.