Well, there are engineers known who still think it is 1986, bassplayers want hifi clean sound, and a midcut around 900Hz.......no sir I'm not Mark King LOL.
I've had many discussions with "sound-engineers" about how my bass(es) should sound, and in their god-like attitude, they asked me what I know from engineering.
Well, besides playing bass for twenty years, I have a Degree in audio engineering, and own my own (home) studio. So what do I know?
Well I know, I own a 2 x 1000watt slave which I will use if I don't like the FOH bass sound, or my wife says the bass-sound sucks......
If they comment on this, I luckely have the attitude nowadays to say it is my gig, and I want the sound I like. If they want another sound, feel free to buy a bass, an amp and form your own band with it's own sound, but don't mess up mine!!!
Altough, I certainly ain't God, I make mistakes and maybe I'm not the best bassplayer around, I know what sound I like - my sound!!!
I shout to the world: bassplayers stand up for our sound, get out of the dark corner of the stage, and do it our way!!! Don't be shy and be proud, think Chris Squire, Geddy Lee, Steve Harris and so many others: stand out with your sound.
Pffffff, that's of my chest LOL.
PS: Philip did you modify any of your OLP's to stereo/Ric-O-Sound? Just joking Jeff LOL
Oh yes, I hope Santa is bringing me a Black-Star.......wishfull thinking!!!
Tone problems
Moderators: rickenbrother, ajish4
I'm an engineer/producer with, might I humbly say, quite a few hit records in my country and I definitely love the sound of a Rickenbacker bass, amplified or D.I.ed or combined. I actually felt it easy for me to capture the sonic textures, deepness and clankiness of a Rickenbacker bass in the studio. During my 13 years career, I've recorded 2 bass players, besides myself, playing a 4003 (you don't see lots of them in my country), and they couldn't be happier with the sound I got for them and that was even before when I became a RIC bass player myself. And now I'm even better at recording RIC basses since I'm really into them and know them better than before.
As a matter of fact, I quite hate it when the bass players bring in their Fender, or high-end, active circuitry Fodera, Sadowsky, Alembic, G&L, Moon, Tune and Warwick basses because they all sound quite the same---you hear the onboard preamps instead of the woods. I always have to work hard to make them sound like they have personality and characters...
The AKG D112 mic is a very modern sounding kick and bass mic due to its extended high and low end response. The slap and punch of a kick, and twang and oomph of a bass are easily reflected by that mic. For a more vintage sound, try the AKG D12 which is the classic origin that the D112 derived from.
The Shure SM57 has more edge because of its slightly emphathised response at around 2-5 KHz. I sometimes combine it with the D112 or D12 in variable proportions to suit the context of the music, which is different from song to song.
The Senheiser MD 421 mic is also very good at producing punchy bass sounds since it has a rich and full response in the low-mid (200-500 Hz) range. Just make sure your engineer has the mic's response pattern dial set to the "M" position (full frequency response for musical instruments) instead of the "S" position (mid range boosted for speech intelligibility). You can also experiment with the 5 dial positions between "M" and "S" to find your favorite sound.
The Electro-Voice (EV) RE-20 is also a very good one for deep bass that I use frequently for recording bass and kick. That's also the mic some DJ's favour to make themselves have a deep sexy voice through the radio waves.
With ballad type songs, I'd sometimes get tube condenser mics like the Neumann M149, U47 (Tube or Fet), and the AKG C12 (which I believe Geoff Emerick used to record Sir Paul's bass in Beatles recordings). Ask for these mics next time you record, if the studio has them.
As for live sound, it's really a good idea to both DI (Sansamp, Bass Pod or the balanced line-out of your amp) and mic. Just watch out for phase problems that can easily occur. (You know it when your bass has less low-mid punch when both signals are combined than when either signal is used alone.) Hit the phase reverse button on either signal channel will help correct the problem/phenomenom.
Don't feel bad when you hear your bass/band sound bad in a live recording which is just the stereo output of the PA desk because the balance that sounds good in a performance venue doesn't necessarily sound good through a relatively even responding hi-fi system or headphones. The audience at a concert is actually hearing the combined sound of the output of the PA and the wall reflections and low frequency standing waves generated by the room. That's why the majority of live rock/pop/jazz recordings are multi-tracked to be rebalanced/mixed in the studio.
As for the soundman who thinks his concept of sound is always superior to the musicians' and doesn't have the will to work with the performers to achieve good sound, well, good luck to them on getting their next job. By the way, I get bored really quick when the soundman places the kick louder than everything else. That kind of sound is so old and cliched.
Just my very humble opinion and I apologize for this long and boring post.
Merry 'Xmas, brothers and sisters!
As a matter of fact, I quite hate it when the bass players bring in their Fender, or high-end, active circuitry Fodera, Sadowsky, Alembic, G&L, Moon, Tune and Warwick basses because they all sound quite the same---you hear the onboard preamps instead of the woods. I always have to work hard to make them sound like they have personality and characters...
The AKG D112 mic is a very modern sounding kick and bass mic due to its extended high and low end response. The slap and punch of a kick, and twang and oomph of a bass are easily reflected by that mic. For a more vintage sound, try the AKG D12 which is the classic origin that the D112 derived from.
The Shure SM57 has more edge because of its slightly emphathised response at around 2-5 KHz. I sometimes combine it with the D112 or D12 in variable proportions to suit the context of the music, which is different from song to song.
The Senheiser MD 421 mic is also very good at producing punchy bass sounds since it has a rich and full response in the low-mid (200-500 Hz) range. Just make sure your engineer has the mic's response pattern dial set to the "M" position (full frequency response for musical instruments) instead of the "S" position (mid range boosted for speech intelligibility). You can also experiment with the 5 dial positions between "M" and "S" to find your favorite sound.
The Electro-Voice (EV) RE-20 is also a very good one for deep bass that I use frequently for recording bass and kick. That's also the mic some DJ's favour to make themselves have a deep sexy voice through the radio waves.
With ballad type songs, I'd sometimes get tube condenser mics like the Neumann M149, U47 (Tube or Fet), and the AKG C12 (which I believe Geoff Emerick used to record Sir Paul's bass in Beatles recordings). Ask for these mics next time you record, if the studio has them.
As for live sound, it's really a good idea to both DI (Sansamp, Bass Pod or the balanced line-out of your amp) and mic. Just watch out for phase problems that can easily occur. (You know it when your bass has less low-mid punch when both signals are combined than when either signal is used alone.) Hit the phase reverse button on either signal channel will help correct the problem/phenomenom.
Don't feel bad when you hear your bass/band sound bad in a live recording which is just the stereo output of the PA desk because the balance that sounds good in a performance venue doesn't necessarily sound good through a relatively even responding hi-fi system or headphones. The audience at a concert is actually hearing the combined sound of the output of the PA and the wall reflections and low frequency standing waves generated by the room. That's why the majority of live rock/pop/jazz recordings are multi-tracked to be rebalanced/mixed in the studio.
As for the soundman who thinks his concept of sound is always superior to the musicians' and doesn't have the will to work with the performers to achieve good sound, well, good luck to them on getting their next job. By the way, I get bored really quick when the soundman places the kick louder than everything else. That kind of sound is so old and cliched.
Just my very humble opinion and I apologize for this long and boring post.
Merry 'Xmas, brothers and sisters!
-
loendmaestro
- Intermediate Member
- Posts: 1495
- Joined: Mon Dec 22, 2003 12:53 pm
- Contact:
I've recorded with D112's several times & love them. A slightly cheaper & IMHO, just as good recording can be made with a Shure PG52.
They're going for cheap right now. Brand new on EBay for $80.
www.brightlightburnout.com
They're going for cheap right now. Brand new on EBay for $80.
www.brightlightburnout.com
Robin, in a way I modified all my basses to stereo by buying two SansAmp RBI units. Instead of using the internal RBI switching to choose between the two units, I go through a separate switchbox that allows either or both units to be used. I am not concerned about amplifying each bass p/up separately. I almost always use both pickups to get a tone I like. That is why a P-bass or StingRay is not my favorite bass. The combination of bottom and high end is what sold me on Rickenbacker back on that fateful day in 1976 when I realized my P-bass was **** for what I wanted in a bass.
Each RBI will be set to sound like a particular amp. Perhaps one to sound like a fat SVT MvVie tone, and the other to sound like a wide bandwidth "Little Manhattan" Entwistle tone. I want to sound like two separate amps simultaneously. I can still go to a separate p/up sound by rolling off one of the p/ups, and use the full power and tone shaping of both channels to enrich the sound EITHER way, single p/up or dual p/up with either or both amps. My power amp is a stereo B&K ST-202+, 5Hz-45kHz full power bandwidth @ 300WPC @ 4 ohms.
Each RBI will be set to sound like a particular amp. Perhaps one to sound like a fat SVT MvVie tone, and the other to sound like a wide bandwidth "Little Manhattan" Entwistle tone. I want to sound like two separate amps simultaneously. I can still go to a separate p/up sound by rolling off one of the p/ups, and use the full power and tone shaping of both channels to enrich the sound EITHER way, single p/up or dual p/up with either or both amps. My power amp is a stereo B&K ST-202+, 5Hz-45kHz full power bandwidth @ 300WPC @ 4 ohms.
Yes I also agree with both Paul and Robin, great posts, stand up for your sound (wasn't that a great country song?). Most soundmen are a little surprised when I grab a mic stand and place it in front of my cab, ("you want your bass mic'ed"? "Yes please of you don't mind" [I've mellowed in my old age]) but are usually pleasantly surprised by the sound they get from the mic. There has been a myth for years that you don't get any low end from mic'ed basses. I don't know why that started because they used 58's and 57's years ago also.
I also dislike active basses, I've had two or three and have gotten rid of all of them, too artificial sounding for my taste. I liked being able to dial in my sound from twenty feet away, but the trade off in sacharine sound was too much for me.
I think the Rics have got a good range of sounds you can get with just the volumes and tones though, much more than other passive basses I can think of.
I also dislike active basses, I've had two or three and have gotten rid of all of them, too artificial sounding for my taste. I liked being able to dial in my sound from twenty feet away, but the trade off in sacharine sound was too much for me.
I think the Rics have got a good range of sounds you can get with just the volumes and tones though, much more than other passive basses I can think of.