Ricks 'n picks and other things (12 string)

[Les]

I am trying to get used to my 360-12 and am starting to record some things.

One thing I notice...

I sound off the octave strings (on the lower four) better with a pretty flexible pick. I'm used to a very stiff pick on 6 string.

Anyone else notice this?

It's a little harder to do arpeggios with a floppy pick, but that's what I think I hear on old '60s stuff.

I was listening carefully to Roger Mcguinn on the remastered "Mr. Tambourine man". I'm doing some covers. I thought he always used a stiff thumb pick and finger picks (banjo style) but on some songs it does not sound like it.

Some recordings were also obviously direct to the mixer , but others sound...hmmm... like a fender twin or super through the bright channel with some spring reverb. Have you noticed this?

I am using a rather rare Fender 30 in the clear channel and it sounds great. Might get a Vox Valvetronix too.

Anyway the new computer box and RME Fireface will be installed in the music room soon. Will be fun to do old covers with 24 bit dynamics and quality. But yes....I'm still compressing the 360-12 a good bit. It just gives it that great almost bagpipe quality.

Les

[dustymurphy]

I'd be interested in this. I don't have a Rick 12er yet (although I've had one on order since Feb. 8th '06) so I don't have an opinion. I do have a double-neck Jimmy Page style Ibanez, and I use the same pick I use all the time. I use either M or H Ernie Ball picks (that say Dusty Murphy on them! ) depending on the gauge of strings I use. My thumb picks are a Fender confetti pick. I use thinner strings on the double neck, so I use the Medium pick, and I have a lot of luck with them. I love Ernie Ball picks, they're my favorite. I'd be interested in seeing what other people use though so I could try out new stuff. I like anything that might shake up the way that I play so I might be inspired into something new.

[rickosound]

We both use either an Elderly Delrin Thin pick or a Dunlop Nylon .046 mm on the 12 string. They both sound pretty Jangley.

Valvetronixes are great for the money, and the comp setting sounds almost as good as a Janglebox (and we have one). We have a AD100VT with AC30 paneling from North Coast Music. They're good for recording and playing in your basement, but if you gig a lot, you might want something else. We've never really had problems transporting ours, but we only do it once a year. Many of the reviews on MF and other sites say they've had problems with durability.

[Les]

Cool. I'm an engineer, so I design gear.

But technique is a big part of the sound I want.

I think I am hearing a lot of thin picks in the old stuff.

I could spring for a hand wired Vox AC 30, but gee, we are supposed to be in a recession...and the sound samples of the Valvetronics sound pretty good...

So I listen to Beatles, Byrds, Animals,Searchers,Zombies, Airplane. I hear a lot of different sounds. Some thick picks, some thin. Some with a lot of compression, some not and kind of banjoy.

It's kind of fun to record this stuff with modern 24 bit technology. I guess I am doing kind of musical anthropology. Working on some gear related to this too. But it seems thin pick DOWNPICKS was a big part of it with the twelves...

Les

[goofyfoot]

For 12-string rhythm and lead ~ Martin 0.46mm Lights
For 6-string rhythm ~ Martin 0.46mm Lights
For 6-string lead ~ Martin 0.73 Mediums

I'm more of a rhythm guitarist and keyboardist in the teacher rock band and the middle-school rock band project. Play on, pick often, and prosper. Late....Goofyfoot.

[sharkboy]

I use fender 351 "Klown Vomit" (confetti) heavy (~.092" from memory) for everything. They are the picks that just feel right to me, even though they don't always go where I want them to.

And I just never get tired of saying "Klown Vomit".

[Les]

"Klown vomit" haha. I had to google that one. Too funny.

Yeah, I'm using the Fender thin. I don't think I have any Martin picks around. A trip to a music store is in order.

I do get kind of a "plinky" sound with the thin pick and the old DOD FX80B compressor I'm using. It has fixed attack. I get better results with a compressor plug in in the DAW software, but I want to compress before the amp so I don't breathe room sounds. I'm designing some compressors to use just for fun. They will be the multiple cascade type. I think I will put a noise gate and some RFI stuff in the circuit. The Rick picks up a lot of hum and computer noise.

The Janglebox sounds nice too...I just like to build my own stuff for fun.

I also just redesigned a circuit I used to get toaster sound from highgain pickups. It now has a switch setting called "flat".
First I take out the midrange peak then put one in a bit beyond the upper end rolloff from self resonance. I'm getting a response flat out to about 12kHz at least from the circuit. Don't know how it will sound....probably kind of acoustic. It won't have the electric guitar "twang".

I did have a little trouble switching to one of my acoustics yesterday. When you start getting used to the 360-12 narrow neck other guitars feel funny. I guess I just need to switch around more. I've been playng the daylights out of the 12.

Les

[jimk]

If you're trying to replicate Roger's style, abandon the thumb pick. On his guitar instruction video he uses a nylon Herco flat pick, and two metal fingerpicks. The flat pick is held conventionally, and the finger picks are placed on the middle and ring fingers. I can't tell what guage he is using however. So far, I prefer Fender mediums (0.73 mm) or any other brand generic plastic pick the same thickness.

JimK

[Les]

Jim,

Yeah I saw some snippets of that video. I'm not that much of a finger picker but I have been trying flat pick and fingernails in Roger's style. I have to get some fingerpicks.

One idea came to me... I have a sitar, and it is played with a special finger pick called a mezrab. It is unique in that you can do both up and down strokes.

I'll try that. I only have one left...I keep loosing the things. it may be too blunt to get in between the narrow string groups.

they look like this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mezrab

Les

[jingle_jangle]

This is most true. However, I have found myself uttering some most unpleasant expressions, as they are very hurtful on the fingers for beginners like myself.

I say things like (for example), "YEOUCH!"

Or, perhaps, "DAMN!"

Please forgive me.

[Les]

Too cool, Paul!

I wish I would have a mezrab ouch. That would mean I found one of the lost ones.

I'm kinda hunting for a Tambura (tanpura) too.

I tried the mezrab on the Rick twelve but it is a little too blunt...Might bend the wire and make it sharper...but I need to order more from Batish first. It's the last one I have.

Bought some metal finger picks too. Have to take the pliers to them a bit.

Ha....people that wish restringing a 12 string was easier ought to try one of our sitars, huh?

Les

[lennon211]

I have to say that I am a creature of habit: I use the Fender heavy guage tortoise colored picks for guitar. I use my older, rounded off picks for bass as I prefer the sound. The one thing that has become habit though is that I have to have the embossed print of the Fender logo under my thumb. I've tried the Tortex and other styles and they feel really off to me.

[jimk]

After looking at that mezrab, I was wondering if a guy could almost manufacture one out of wire at home. All you'd need it seems is wire of slightly lighter gauge than a coat hanger and a pair of pliers, not?

JimK

[Les]

Yeah Jim, I have made mezrabs out of hardware store steel baling wire out of desperation when I lose them.
Much thinner that coat hangers...about 20 gage.

The neat thing is that you can double pick with them....really fast too. If they had a tighter tip radius they might work pretty well on the 12.

BTW my 360-12 came from a music store in Lawrence...

Les

[Les]

oh and Matthew...yeah I have planty of Fender heavy gage. I know what you mean. I bought some tortex about an hour ago and they feel kinda slippery. Good thing is they are about half way between a fender thin and medium. As I said the thin sounds a little plinky when I'm using the compressor on the 360-12. And I can't play fast with them.

Les