help me obi-wan(s)

[woodyng]

last night i looked over a bass a friend of mine had in his shop for a pickup replacement,but now is for sale . it appears to be a july 1974 jetglo 4001. there are some problems/inconsistencies that are bothering me. it is a neck through/3 piece neck lams are visible in the sunken paint lines. it has 2 truss rods. it has stereo outputs and the serial number is visible,although the jacks are not labelled standard/ricosound. the trc is raised letter type,not plexi. the troubling things for me are 1. fretboard is beautiful dark brown rosewood,not the more typical red color i associate with ricks. 2.the inlays seem a bit unusual as well,can't quite describe why-they "seem" small. 3.looking under the hood,3 of the 4 pots are japanese and the wiring has been tampered with. the bridge pickup is gone,almost literally,there is only a base plate and magnet,no bobbin,windings etc. the toaster works and sounds good.the overall good news is the black finish is in good condition,the bass is light,the neck is straight. the tuning keys are a copy of wavy grovers,not the real thing,but look like they could be original to the bass. the final thing is the identifying output jack looks like it may have been removed/replaced because it seems to somewhat warped from the body shape. obviously, i am thinking "well what do we have here?" i would like to buy it and fix the pickup/electronics.,my question is the asking price if i am getting a real one or some greco/ibanez copy. if i'm not mistaken,is rickenbacker the ONLY one with the dual trussrods-or did one of those clever japanese companys also do that? please weigh in with your comments/suggestions. something else i just remembered-the route to the neck pickup is squared off-didn't rickenbacker do theirs in a kind of scalloped manner?

[rickcrazy]

Hey Woody. From your description there's no doubt in my mind that you're dealing with a fake 4001 bass sporting a couple genuine Rickenbacker parts. Some 4001 copies did have two truss rods though. Unless the asking price for that faker is ridiculously low, say 100 - 150 bucks tops, allowing you to sell the legit Rick parts on it at a profit, avoid it at any cost. Cheers.

[rickaddict]

Pics would help, but it definitely sounds suspect.

And Sergio is the man for spotting fakes!

[bassassin]

Can you get some pics? What you're describing sounds to me like a Matsumoku copy - probably Univox or Aria/Aria Pro II - the neck-through variants of these had twin truss rods & were generally very close copies, and when a faker's being sold as a real Rick, it generally turns out to be a Matsumoku bass.

I think we can be certain it's not a Rick, though and if you can get some pics it will be pretty straightforward to point out the differences!

Jon.

[woodyng]

i will try to take pix tonite-i think it is actually a pretty nice bass,but the owner is asking an amount which would be great for a repairs-needed rick,and really bad for a copy. having said that,i wouldn't mind picking it up still,if the price were lowered very substantially .i have to say my main interest in this bass initially was to repair and resell,so i am definitely cooling off....

[woodyng]

upon closer inspection......the truss rods had allen wrench inserts,the "off" part about the inlays were that they were centered in the fretboard,smaller than the rick ones..the bad part is the owner thinks he has a real rick,even though he bought it for $500......

[phlemmy]

see if he'll sell you the trc.

[woodyng]

it has a rick output jack too,i thought about it! in the meantime,hunting around on ebay i found another one! so i now know it is made by electra,the one on ebay is actually up to nearly $900!! and it also has a nonworking bridge pickup. the one my friend has is a jetglo with cream binding,actually nice looking....and really feels nice...for $350 maybe....

[johnallg]

Ya gotta set him straight on the bass, Woody. He can't sell it as a Rick. Just compare his bass with one of your Ricks and point out the exact differences. Steer him here if he won't accept it from you.

[woodyng]

actually my friend that currently has the bass NOW knows the difference,and wouldn't try to sell it as a rick, but the actual owner (whom i haven't met) is another story.....the guy wants $700,which i thought was too much,however ebay is proving me wrong . so, the real thing keeps going up in price,i guess the fake ones will as well. the bass is nice enough,having played a few ricks over the years,it is a pretty fair approximation,but i for one wouldn't give that much money for it.

[bassassin]

Unfortunately it's more than just RIC's price increases that are pushing up the prices of the copies - a lot of it's to do with necessary actions RIC has to take against the open trade of them. RIC has to take action to protect its trademark designs, so Ebay auctions (these day the main way pre-owned instruments are bought & sold) for fakers will get shut down if they are spotted. Add this to the fact that all the "lawsuit era" 70s Japanese instruments are becoming very sought-after & collectable in their own right - and it ends up meaning that as far as availability's concerned, these things are rare as hens' teeth. Hence, prices for these can get really stupid - recently an Ibanez copy appeared on UK Ebay with a start price of £450!

I suppose the only positive aspect of this is that fakers are more likely to end up in the hands of people who want to collect them for what they are, rather than to try & pass them off as genuine. At least, I hope that's the case.

As far as this one being an Electra is concerned - there's no way of knowing this. To be pedantic for a bit (sorry! ) Electra was simply a brand name used by St Louis Music, and they sourced their instruments from at least 3 different factories. I've actually seen Electra Rick copies made by Fujigen Gakki, Kasuga & Matsumoku. These are all very different - but the Matsumoku ones are by far the most accurate of the 3. The same bass would also have been sold as Univox, Aria, Greco, and a whole variety of others.

Jon.