what is the most expensive ric bass? rarest ric bass?

[vincent_gallo]

I believe most of us understand what is meant by the term RM 1999. The name fits fine when a bass is made in a batch of instruments that are intended for export and each of those basses have the same model specs. The term RM 1999 is more of a catachresis than it is a technicality. It is no way misleading to call Paul’s bass an RM but instead confusing to call it otherwise.

[jingle_jangle]

Less of a catachresis than a mistake, then?

[rickfan60]

The S models were available here at the same time so I don't know if you can assume a given instrument was "intended" for export if it was not actually exported. Rose Morris imported only for a short time. True (documented) RMs may be of interest to collectors and may even carry a price premium as they were among the first to enter Europe. I would think confusion would derive from calling just any 4001S from the time an RM.

[vincent_gallo]

I have been collecting and very interested in 1960’s era Rickenbacker basses for many many years. The 1964 production basses are the ones I have always desired most, especially the RM1999/4001S. I have held, played or owned more than most folks. With that said I have never met or heard of anyone with a story claiming they purchased a RM1999/4001S in the United States that was built in 1964. That is not to say it did not happen but I believe it to be uncommon

All eight of my RM1999’s can be traced back to the export market and most have the original case sporting its extra badge. The point is the model was created specifically for the export market in association with the Rose Morris company and was not at all promoted here. If some were sold here or given away here it is not misleading to still call them by that name. The term RM1999 lets us imagine a 1964 or 67 bass in fireglow , unbound , horseshoe and dot markers. I basically assume all were sold through the Rose Morris Company or at least built with them in mind. Still I look forward to the day I can purchase one with a USA receipt dated 1964 and marked 4001S. Furthermore, the 1964 catalogues and price guides for USA dealers that I have come across do not mention the 4001S so I always assumed someone would have to have special ordered one here. They would have called up the factory and said, “ Could I get one of those RM1999’s”

[markbass99]

All eight of my RM1999’s can be traced back to the export market and most have the original case sporting its extra badge.

Wow, eight RM's, that's awesome. I can definite relate to that obsession, Vince's 1964 = my 1973.

[weemac]

Don't quote me but Rose Morris used to be active in Australia as well so it may be possible that the Australian RMs are in fact.......... RMs.
emac.

[wints]

I read a post years many years ago, where someone said you couldn't find a two pick up "S'" bass in the States in the 60's. Like Vincent mentions, they were not shown or mentioned in any literature at the time and were special order only. All the two p/u, dot inlay 60's basses I have seen or heard about have came from Europe, and down under.

That doesn't mean they weren't ordered, but I would imagine practically all production from 64-67 was export related. Maybe, one day, we'll find an original owner example here in the US, but it could be some time...

[vincent_gallo]

As well the factory in the 60's made batches of the same instrument thus the unbound two pickup 64 basses aka RM1999 seem to all have been finished during certain months. If by some odd occurrence a USA buyer heard about a two pickup bass being offered and wanted one the factory most likely would have pulled one from a batch set for the Rose Morris distribution chain. 4001S is the model # Rickenbacker used for production purpose and the Rose Morris Company gave it its more common and famous name the RM1999. Denying McCartney’s bass the RM1999 distinction because it was hand delivered here in the States is misleading and serves no productive purpose in understanding the model.

For the record, I am blessed to have been in contact with Andy Winter “Wints”, he is the only person I call when I spot a RM1999 for sale. He knows a ton and has great taste.

[wints]

Why, thank you Vincent...

I, in turn, must give props to yourself and Gerry "down under" Fergusson, as us three have all been watching and talking RM1999 's for many years. John Simmons too, even if he does pick up a six stringer now and then!

It's been a team thing, no doubt.

[leftybass]

It is worth mentioning that Paul McCartney's bass (DA 23) was thought of by Rickenbacker as a model "4000, + 1 pickup, Fire(glow), left handed"....the documents support this. I would think that the bass never had a proper sales invoice as it was hand delivered by Mr. Hall in 1965.

Paul's bass may have been intended as an RM sample, or possibly DA 24, Pete's old bass. YMMV....

Thanks Andy! I love being in great company!!

[rickfan60]

So there are no known examples of domestically sold 4001S from '64? When does the S model start to appear in the US? My '66 price sheet (I don't know how complete it is) shows only the 4000, 4001, 4005, and oddly enough the 4005/6. The closest thing to the S on the list is the 4000.

[seyesbass]

When I wrote to Mr Hall about DA24 in 1988,he said in his reply that DA24 was made in Jan 1961and would have been a single pick up model.
I have that letter in front of me right now.
I took this to be an error because the bass was routed for two pick ups from new and he must have just made a mistake.
That said there is always the possibility that DA23 and 24 were made before 1963 or 64 and kept at the factory for various reasons.
I have the same kind of anomaly with my CS which according to Rickenbacker was made in August 1990 and used as an exhibit at the trade fair in Jan 1991 making it just about the oldest one on the market but it isnt number one or two.
There has been a lot of mention of 1964 but I am sure basses like DH163 were made in 1963 werent they?
Vince and Wints..between us we have seen a few RMs but out of over 150 it begs the question I have asked many times...Where are all the others?

[rickfan60]

So the SN was applied 3 years after being built? There were apparently some different practices back then as to when the SN was issued. So if it was built in '61 doesn't that predate the RM time period?

[vincent_gallo]

First of all there was no such body contour in 61. Mr. Hall must have meant 64 and #163 has nothing to do with production year. Rickenbacker uses a letter to signify year and month. Pete and Ted, I’m sorry to say that you are making things more confusing than they need to be. Regarding the Paul McCartney bass, I am sure Rickenbacker had been in talks with Rose Morris for a bit of time before a deal was done and instruments were built. The earlier 4000 basses have different routes for the pots. I do not believe Mr. Hall knowing he was going forward with a export deal did not think it was smart to get Paul a bass from the export batch concept but simply a left-handed version. Rose Morris may have even suggested it.

A more rigorous attempt at a database just for the RM1999 would be great

[rickfan60]

I agree. They should be documented and understood and it sounds like you are well on the way. All those years of hunting them down have paid off.