Did The Byrds Influence "Norwegian Wood"?

admin · Post by **admin** » Sun Nov 12, 2000 8:52 am

Ian MacDonald in "Revolution In The Head" refers to the August 24, 1965 meeting between The Beatles' Lennon and Harrison and The Byrds' McGuinn and Crosby on Mulholland Drive in Los Angeles. On page 146 MacDonald comments

"During a day spent tripping on LSD, an experience which later found its way into SHE SAID, SHE SAID, Lennon and Harrison sat with McGuinn and Crosby playing 12-strings and discussing the music of the Indian sitar-player Ravi Shankar. Harrison had been interested in this instrument since he'd used it to spice up the soundtrack of Help!, but it was new to Lennon who, sensitised by the 'acid', became fascinated by the exotic raga phrases Crosby played to him. Conceivably the sustained E major of his part of NORWEGIAN WOOD represents his version of the drone common to all Indian classical music, while his descending melody may have been a gesture at reproducing the Oriental intervals to which he had been introduced seven weeks earlier by The Byrds."

Others have credited the Kinks' "See My Friend" as having been the original influence for Norweigan Wood, however, surely the timing of Lennon's composition links the influence moreso to The Byrds than The Kinks.

rick12dr · Post by **rick12dr** » Sun Nov 12, 2000 3:24 pm

I think one could safely say that whatever we heard from all these guys back then was nothing less than the sum total of all the various influences around them.Or as Crosby puts it, that
"cross pollination" of musical ideas.Or Stills,
who sang "Change Partners" [though that may not be what Stephen had in mind on that one].Musical
incest was what another reviewer of the time referred to with regards to the mid-late 60s California scene, which obviously extended it's sphere of influence across the Atlantic.

admin · Post by **admin** » Sun Nov 12, 2000 6:59 pm

Don: Yes I am sure that there were many influences, however, I still have to credit Crosby with the greater influence of the day as within weeks of his discussion with Lennon the idea eventually found its way to the recording studio. I think that the information exchange across the Atlantic was there but this personal experience must have made the difference for Lennon at the time. I will leave Crosby's cross pollenation theory alone for now. The next topic: The Byrds and The Bees!

fatrat · Post by **fatrat** » Thu Jan 18, 2001 2:03 am

I would beg to differ on the Byrds influence on Norweigan Wood. I would think that Dylan might have had more to do with the lyrics. As far as the sitar, George heard the Indian musicians in Help movie/on soundtrack, and thought it would be interesting to check out. Plus I do think that David Crosby or Brian Jones might have told him if he liked the sitar, that he should check out Ravi Shankar.

FATRAT

leep · Post by **leep** » Thu Jan 18, 2001 5:10 am

The Byrds never had to use a sitar in their recorded works... they used a Ric/12. The Byrds were funky from the get-go, while the Rutles were poster boys until they smoked weed, dropped acid and grew beards.

The Byrds were influenced by the Beatles rock so much that they mixed their folk music with it, and thus created folk-rock. The Beatles dug the funky "space-cadet" look of the Byrds. Roger McGuinn wore glasses before John Lennon decided to (after appearing as Pvt. Gripweed in the film "How I Won the War"). In fact, I'm not even sure that the Beatles knew who Bob Dylan was before the Byrds did a few of his songs. The Beatles listed the Byrds as their favorite American band around (or before) the time of Rubber Soul. Revolver, the Beatles next album, was their first step into funky behavior (after hanging out with the Byrds).

Rickenbackerat · Post by **Rickenbackerat** » Tue Feb 06, 2001 12:05 am

I think the Byrds wrote that song really anyway right?

Marc · Post by **Marc** » Wed Feb 07, 2001 2:23 pm

'If I needed someone' sounds much more Byrds-y than any other Rubber Soul track. You can't criticise The Beatles for not being 'far out' enough. Liverpool is a little less 'far out' than L.A..What Liverpool does have is surreal humour which The Beatles had by the ton.

Thymecube · Post by **Thymecube** » Wed Feb 07, 2001 10:26 pm

And Your Byrd Can Sing!

tom · Post by **tom** » Thu Feb 08, 2001 2:24 pm

both bands influenced each other....

Its real goofy to think other wise....
the beatles got a few clothes and glasses and one or two chords from the Byrds...
the Byrds got a career from the Beatles, before the beatles came along, the Byrds were doing acoustic folk....
it wasnt just the Byrds either, name any band from the mid-60s that didnt steal a lick or a haircut from the Beatles....Im not down playing the Byrds influence on all these bands either, every one nicked ideas from each other.....
the Beach Boys/brian wilson were just as big an influence on all these band as the byrd or the Beatles....
they were all great bands and who really cares if Norweigian Wood was lifted or not....
just listen to it and dont worry about it....
tom

JVallee228 · Post by **JVallee228** » Thu Mar 01, 2001 3:29 am

Hear Hear!

admin · Post by **admin** » Wed Mar 07, 2001 7:38 am

I agree that both groups respected one another as far as their music was concerned. What has always been interesting to me has been that Roger McGuinn got the 12 string idea from seeing George Harrison. Rickenbacker was right in the Byrds' backyard but the influence did not come from America but the UK.

tom · Post by **tom** » Mon Mar 19, 2001 9:35 pm

kinda like the chess blues stuff with the Stones bringing it back to the states???

rick12dr · Post by **rick12dr** » Tue Mar 20, 2001 4:40 pm

Peter, lest any newcomers misunderstand,McGuinn got the Electric 12 string idea from Harrison.He'had already been into acoustic 12 for
quite a while, and he understood where you could go with this.I kind of think when Harrison 1st got his Rick 12, it was more of a novelty[that he did pretty good with]that colored the Beatles stuff differently.McGuinn, while obviously being
influenced by the Beatles,was into a whole 'nother trip,and that even without Crosby's help.

tomcat · Post by **tomcat** » Tue Mar 20, 2001 7:58 pm

********. McGuinn didn't get the 12-string idea from Harrison. McGuinn was playing a 12-string at least seven years before Harrison ever played that 360/12 -- and that, only because Rickenbacker, an American guitar company, offered the 360/12 to Lennon first, who passed on the guitar and recommended it for George instead. McGuinn didn't get the electric 12-string idea from Harrison, either. Before Harrison, McGuinn was already playing an amplified electric 12-string, since he had electrified his Gibson 12 with a DeArmond pickup in the early '60s. Moreover, unlike Harrison, who all but had that Rick 360/12 forced on him while on his sickbed, veteran 12-string guitarist McGuinn already had his eye out for a decent electric 12-string to come on the market. Then, when he saw "A Hard Day's Night", he realized there was a great electric 12-string that had just come on the market.

Quote:"Right, I'd had my acoustic 12-string for years. The Beatles movie showed me that there was a great electric 12-string on the market."

-- Roger McGuinn
Ear Candy Interview - April 1999 Rickenbacker may have been in The Byrds' back yard, but McGuinn can hardly be blamed if Rickenbacker gave their first Rick 12s away to others. (I suppose McGuinn should have settled for a Bellzouki.) Unlike Harrison, McGuinn at least paid for his 360/12, sacrificing a banjo and an acoustic guitar in the process. And as for McGuinn and the others being a bunch of unknown folkies, McGuinn had already toured South America for the U.S. State Department and Gene Clark had already performed at the White House for the President of the United States BEFORE the Beatles came to America and played Sullivan in February 1964. Just preserving the facts.

admin · Post by **admin** » Wed Mar 21, 2001 3:10 am

Terry and Dr: The intent of my post, albeit with some difficulty, was that Roger McGuinn really got introduced to the Rickenbacker 12-String after seeing George Harrison playing one. I have always found this to be of interest seeing as the Rickenbacker 12-string was really "right in his own backyard" so to speak. Thanks for pointing out my imprecision. I should have said "Roger McGuinn got the Rickenbacker 12 string idea from seeing George Harrison." What a difference a "Rickenbacker" can make. The good news is that the error of my ways has given me the opportunity to talk to both of you once again about The Byrds. I appreciate you taking the time to share your knowledge. To everything there is a season. Welcome to spring!