New neck for a Laredo 5-er (project infancy opinions)

[incubus2432]

Well, I've had this thought for some time but got sidetracked with other shenanigans. With recent developments I'm ready to start the wheels rolling. I'm not really in "need" of a five string at this time but would like a new project and this is at the top of my list.

What is everyone's opinion of taking a Laredo and having a five string neck made for it by Paul or Dale? I realize it isn't the most cost effective solution but given the alternative may not be too bad. The typical Laredo and Cii conversions are fine and I appreciate them but the four string neck is too small for my ham hands AND 5 strings. Finding a Cii/5 is, basically, impossible and it would need mods as well to make it "correct". New necks have been made for repairs on vintage basses so I see no issue with making one slightly wider for a non-vintage Laredo. It would be a nice opportunity for full width inlays......extra large please! At this point the body and new neck combo could be routed for whatever p/u's are chosen in whatever locations. Likely going with the LK configuration.

Does anyone think this would ruffle RIC's feathers since the Cii/5 is such a touchy subject?

I haven't contacted Dale or Paul to even see if there is any willingness to undertake the project so it may be dead in the water anyway.

Honestly, I was a bit rude to Paul W. at one point (long story and being rude is my specialty) so I may not be a welcome customer (which is fine BTW) but I'd be interested in seeing his take on this as well.

[aceonbass]

Brian, I had a similar project in mind at one time, only I wanted a six string bass. What I was thinking of doing would keep the bass almost all RIC and I think also maintain it's value and brand integrity better than sawing out the neck and building a new one. Here' my plan....
Step 1: After removing all of the parts/hadware, saw of the body wings where they were attatched.
Step 2: Plane off the fingerboard.
Step 3: Saw the neck EXACTLY down the middle completely in half.
Step 4: Add a strip between the two neck halves of your choice of dark wood(shedua, bubinga, walnut etc...) tapered to give your neck the desired width at the nut and bridge. This will have the added benefit of replicating the popular "skunk strip".
Step 4: Add and fret a new fingerboard.
Step 5: Saw off the headstock wings and build new wings with enough material for 3 tuners on top and 2 on the bottom and shape headstock.
Step 6: To keep the same body "footprint", remove wood from each of the body wings to complensate for the new, wider neck and re-attach them to the neck.
At this point it's just a matter of re-routing the body for the new pickups, test fitting the new hardware, and refinishing the bass.

[gshadoan]

I think it is generally accepted that if you own an instrument, you may do to it what you may. If this includes building a new neck for it, so be it. As to the neck configuration, the CII/5 would be a perfect solution for our (you) fat long fingered freinds. I love it. It could use a little more taper at the nut, but thats all behind us now. The spacing is awesome, plenty of room. Good luck.

Greg

[qwezirider]

I sure don't know enough about trademark issues, but Dane's approach seems to have fewer possibilities for infringement than does building an entire new neck and headstock. Afterall, it's more modifying what already exists than creating a new piece.

Interesting concept being brought up that would be good of which to know the answers.

[jwr2]

Does anyone think this would ruffle RIC's feathers since the Cii/5 is such a touchy subject?

This topic will not go away ... Approximately 40% of bass players own and use a 5 string bass ... Until Ric produces a 5 string bass it will keep coming up ... and if they produce a 5 string bass with flaws it will come up a lot ... And unless they are secretly producing 5 string basses right now then we will have to add 2 years on to any release date ... so If ric announced they were taking orders for a 5 string bass today we would not see them until april of 2010 ...

I gave up waiting many years ago and came up with a do-it-myself solution years ago. My solution is not perfect and not well suited to someone with large hands. But it works nicely for me.

Brian if you are willing to go with different pickups then you could do a 4-2-5 on an existing 4004 that would have a 2 5/8" spacing at the bridge ... this is only 1/8" narrower than a MusicMan 5 string bass at the bridge. The problem is Ric currently has no pickups that are wider than 2 1/4" and they really need a 2 3/4" wide pickup for a 5 string bass. I bet Sergio could build some 15k ohm series humbuckers to fit the bill.

It would ba a shame to have to take a fine $1500 4004 bass and remove the neck from the body wings to make it a 5 string bass ... you would have a rather extreem 4-2-5 bass.

[gshadoan]

I would think (actullay know) that "new" peices are made for exsisting instruments. As long as it started out life as a RIC, it should not be a problem. If he took the old neck, manufactured a new body and sold it as a RIC that might be an issue. As long as anyone could modify/add/improve(opinion) to an exsisting unit, and not make somthing where there was nothing I could'nt imagine any legal entanglments. As to the value of it, personally I would think that it would drop dramaticlly. An intact factory bass will always (or should) be more valuable than a modified version. Maybe with the exception of Ted's 350 bass. That is SEXY!!

[aceonbass]

While the number of PROFFESSIONAL bass players playing 5 string basses is high, 5 string basses have less than 10% of the market as a whole. Remember that most musical equipment in general isn't even used professionally, just as most speed parts for hot rods are not sold to professional racers. The result is that most bass players on the "street" still don't feel comfortable playing a 5ver yet. Pros NEED to be state of the art in order to be on top of their game and get the big gigs, but the average Joe doesn't. What you see on TV is not what you see in the bars, VFW halls and high school dances.
As far as trademark infringement goes, replaceing th eneck alone is not an issue, but replacing everything but the body wings and TRC would result in a non-RIC. My method retains everything the bass was built with except the pickups, and I think would result in a more valuable instrument. Otherwise, you may as well have a neck through 5ver built from scratch.

[incubus2432]

It may involve, technically, only changing the p/u's and the rest of the bass is there, with the addition of your widening strip, but to say it is may retain more value because there is more "original" is perhaps a bit of a leap. It is still modified in a fashion that isn't reversible. If a new neck is made and the body wings are secured to it by someone skilled at working with Rics (dual rods and Ric like construction) then I think the value would be the same as splitting the stock neck and widening it. It is, essentially, a new neck either way with a new fretboard. And it is a non-reversible modification which may be a hit to the value or, considering RIC's current 5 string production, I would imagine a properly modified Laredo into an L/5 might actually bring a premium. I know I'd pay more for Greg's Cii/5 with functioning p/u's than I would for a stock one in similar condition (as an example).

I've posed the question before and there is no clear answer.......how much rebuilding/modifying can be done before it ceases to be a RIc?

[johnallg]

Brian, read this thread over at the RIC forum, and see if that clears is up a little. If I understood the rebuild correctly, I was wondering the same thing you asked.

http://www.rickenbacker.com/forum_view_ ... OFF%20EBAY

[jwr2]

These pickups here could be a good choice for that project ... they can be wired single, parallel, series just like a Ric hb1 pickup ...

http://www.seymourduncan.com/comparetones/view/146

[incubus2432]

I'm actually leaning towards the Nordstrand dual coil soapbars (http://www.bestbassgear.com/nordstrand- ... rdstranddc). I heard a set in a jazz style bass and was quite impressed with the full range response and clarity. I've been wanting to try 'em in something so this is a good opportunity IMO.

[atomic_punk]

Or you could buy a Music Man. (Sorry, I couldn't resist...)

[incubus2432]

Well, I got a response from Dale and this project is a "go" when I secure a donor.

I'm actually considering using my Blackened Laredo that I just bought back from Marc. I already have the electronics on the way that I want to use and would just have to order the p/u's so the cost is minimal vs getting a donor and buying the electronics again. $1500-ish/donor + $400/electronics + $350/pickups + $125/bridge + ?????/cost of Dale's work = YIKES!

I've already talked to Mike Parks about the Cii he has in stock but after a little debating my current Laredo seems like the logical choice. Hopefully it'll be done by RIO!

Or you could buy a Music Man. (Sorry, I couldn't resist...)

I appreciate Music Man basses but they just don't work out for me feel-wise. I know they look like a toilet seat but I'm drawn to Bongos especially.

[aceonbass]

So which method of conversion are you following Brian?

[sloop_john_b]

Dale's pretty backed up, Brian. I wouldn't expect it to be ready for RIO.