Dave, i've seen that "Midsummer nights" sketch somewhere recently(can't recall where)......
It's hilarious!
Beatle Songs pre-EMI
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hamilton_square
- Member
- Posts: 352
- Joined: Wed Jan 31, 2007 8:26 am
Re: Beatle Songs pre-EMI
“brammy” – thank you for asking about my antecedence for if George Harrison were still alive today then he’d be six months older than me. Like the late Neil Aspinall, I was born in Flintshire, North Wales (some 30 miles from Merseyside as the crow flies) being that my mother was Welsh; also that’s where her side the family were still living at the time and arguably a safe place to be with a war going on.
After the Second World War was over then it was back to Birkenhead and the Wirral and that’s where I grew up. Hence my forum username of ‘Hamilton Square’, which happens to be a prime Birkenhead location for cross-river, transport links to and from Liverpool City Centre. For the past 25 years I’ve been working and living down the South of England (on the outskirts of London).
Bear in mind that as far as The Beatles performing live in and around Liverpool and District venues when they weren’t in Hamburg, we are only talking about something like a two-and-a-bit-year period before the group moved on. Do the sums and this was all going on a few years short of half-a-century ago. Therefore, in all honesty, from this distance of time I can’t be 100% certain about such undocumented live performance details.
Zip-a-dee-doo-dah was something of standard number amongst the 'first-wave' of Liverpool groups. It was performed at slow tempo with a great deal of strident emphasis on the vocals almost to the point that the lyrics were not so much being sung but spoken in order to extenuate the vocal pauses between words.
I can remember Cilla Black (probably during her frequent sets with Rory Storm and The Hurricanes) doing a version. I can also recall Johnny Hutchinson, singer / drummer of the Big Three regularly doing a likewise version. I’m almost certain that I can remember John Lennon doing a slow and rather stridently drawn out vocal interpretation of the number.
As I’m sure one knows “Wooden Heart” was based on the traditional German folksong of "Muß i' denn zum Städtele hinaus" and featured in the Elvis Presley 1960 film release of “GI Blues”. Several lines of the lyrics that were included were written in the original German language version of the song. I’m sure I can remember Paul McCartney vocally mangling such German lyrics – for back then doing a number that contained non-English lyrics was something of a novelty. Another Beatles live performance example of that time being “"Bésame Mucho"” which when translated from Spanish means “Kiss Me A Lot”.
After the Second World War was over then it was back to Birkenhead and the Wirral and that’s where I grew up. Hence my forum username of ‘Hamilton Square’, which happens to be a prime Birkenhead location for cross-river, transport links to and from Liverpool City Centre. For the past 25 years I’ve been working and living down the South of England (on the outskirts of London).
Bear in mind that as far as The Beatles performing live in and around Liverpool and District venues when they weren’t in Hamburg, we are only talking about something like a two-and-a-bit-year period before the group moved on. Do the sums and this was all going on a few years short of half-a-century ago. Therefore, in all honesty, from this distance of time I can’t be 100% certain about such undocumented live performance details.
Zip-a-dee-doo-dah was something of standard number amongst the 'first-wave' of Liverpool groups. It was performed at slow tempo with a great deal of strident emphasis on the vocals almost to the point that the lyrics were not so much being sung but spoken in order to extenuate the vocal pauses between words.
I can remember Cilla Black (probably during her frequent sets with Rory Storm and The Hurricanes) doing a version. I can also recall Johnny Hutchinson, singer / drummer of the Big Three regularly doing a likewise version. I’m almost certain that I can remember John Lennon doing a slow and rather stridently drawn out vocal interpretation of the number.
As I’m sure one knows “Wooden Heart” was based on the traditional German folksong of "Muß i' denn zum Städtele hinaus" and featured in the Elvis Presley 1960 film release of “GI Blues”. Several lines of the lyrics that were included were written in the original German language version of the song. I’m sure I can remember Paul McCartney vocally mangling such German lyrics – for back then doing a number that contained non-English lyrics was something of a novelty. Another Beatles live performance example of that time being “"Bésame Mucho"” which when translated from Spanish means “Kiss Me A Lot”.
Re: Beatle Songs pre-EMI
Veeeeerrryyy interesting.
So please tell us more.
WHEN exactly did you see the Beatles? Pre / post Pete Best?
Where? Cavern? Elsewhere?
What was their act like?
Any and all minute details you can provide will be soaked up like a sponge.
So please tell us more.
WHEN exactly did you see the Beatles? Pre / post Pete Best?
Where? Cavern? Elsewhere?
What was their act like?
Any and all minute details you can provide will be soaked up like a sponge.
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hamilton_square
- Member
- Posts: 352
- Joined: Wed Jan 31, 2007 8:26 am
Re: Beatle Songs pre-EMI
“brammy” – you asked for it so, to the best of ability, I’ll tell you.
What initially attracted me to this forum was the sub-section on the Iron Door Club. While I had really nothing against the nearby and now obviously better known Cavern Club, I tended to prefer the atmosphere of the slightly larger IDC. When a few of us did start to venture regularly across the river, for public (ease of late-night getting back home) transport reasons, we invariably only ever concentrated on these two Liverpool City centre venues with occasional forays to the Mardi Gras. Being that both the Cavern and the IDC were only a hop-step-and-a-jump away from James Street Station and one stop away from Hamilton Square.
Whenever I think of the Cavern, I think of cheese rolls. Near enough every time I fancied something eat in there – cheese rolls were all they had left. The other thing I became very wary of was the state of some of the walls. Lean against them and one’s coat sleeves would be covered in dandruff like dust.
Saturdays were always favourite, case of killing two birds with one stone so to speak. Saturday afternoon it was off to Goodison Park if Everton were playing [soccer] at home. Traditionally English soccer games always started at 3pm on a Saturday afternoon and finished at 4.45pm. Then catch the bus back into Liverpool City Centre for something to eat. Usually a sit-down, of a plate of battered cod, chips / french fries and mushy peas with a side order of bread-and-butter and a much tea as we could drink.
Back then in the UK there were broadly two types of ‘fish and chip’ shops. The stand-up type where one was simply served with the food and left the premises to consume it elsewhere. The sit-down sort were one had the option to either eat on or off the premises. Occasionally, one or two of us had to skip the after game sit-down meal to get back across the river to get changed and hook with current girl friends for a Saturday evening out.
Come 6 o’clock the pubs would open following their afternoon siesta – no such thing as all day opening hours in those days – pubs were generally open in evening from 6pm to 10.30pm. Depending on the state of our finances and the age of some of our crew (the legal UK beer drinking age was and still is 18) we’d seek out a watering hole down some side street or other and talk about anything that caught our fancy over a few pints until it was time to make a move.
On the Saturdays that Everton was not playing at home and we had no reason to go into Liverpool during the afternoon. Then it was left up to the individual to make his own plans however, a few of us would invariably bump into one another during the course of an evening.
I recall seeing Pete Best on any number of occasions but in particular I remember Mona, his mother at some of the venues. For a woman then in her late 30s she stood out like a well carried for rose amongst daises. She wasn’t all that tall but she had striking jet-black hair that was always well groomed, a curvy figure, immaculate dress sense and a very attractive round face. Of course, we all thought that Mrs Best was there to check up on her son. What we didn’t know was the nature of her relationship with Neil Aspinall.
The thing that sticks in my mind about The Beatles at that particular time were the black leather jeans they often wore. Black leather jackets we all knew about – but leather jeans were something new on Merseyside at the time. Personally, I always tended to identify with George Harrison. To me, he always appeared to be well drilled in what he was doing onstage. From my audience standpoint, I thought that at times John Lennon had the makings of a sarcastic SOB. There were occasions when he would have a vaguely disinterested / condescending look about him. Paul McCartney was your more animated and chatty audience participation type. The overall impression they tended to generate was one of being a very together unit. Obviously at the time, none of us knew very much about their Hamburg experiences, that all came out at a later date.
When The Beatles came across the river to the Birkenhead side to perform, the Majestic or Grosvenor Ballrooms were favourite places for us. I always had a soft spot for the Majestic being I seemed to have more luck with the girls there than anywhere else. In particular I remember a girl (not that I ever got to know her) by the name of Ida Holly who would from time to time get up on the stage between sets and do a bit of continuity chat. Her particular claim to fame was when John Lennon was not seeing Cynthia he was seeing Ida Holly.
Taken from the 1963 Beat City TV Documentary - a YouTube clip inside the Majestic Ballroom - the first 10 seconds of which is Ida Holly doing the intro - and no, I wasn't there at the time.
While I then quite liked the resort of New Brighton, which is not all that far from Birkenhead, I never did take to the Tower Ballroom there – too big and impersonal for my taste. Less than 500 in there and the place seemed empty to me – instead much preferred the smaller Kraal Club.
I well remember the first time a few of us went to the River Park Ballroom in Chester to purposely see The Beatles. The Mersey Beat newspaper had reported that Pete Best had got the push and had been replaced by Ringo Starr. Brian Epstein had booked them to do four Thursday night gigs at the River Park Ballroom in Chester for what I’ve since discovered was a fee of £25 [$50] per gig. The story goes that Pete Best’s services were dispensed with shortly before the first gig. Ringo Starr was unavailable so the Big Three’s Johnny Hutchinson covered for him. I understand that two Thursday’s later [which would have been the third booking] was the day that John Lennon married Cynthia. I’m almost certain we did the 45-minute train journey for the fourth and last Thursday date of the Chester quartet because I remember that the bus would have been a cheaper option but the last night train back to Birkenhead ran a lot later that the last bus did.
It was on the strength of these four initial bookings that the River Park Ballroom started to stage regular Thursday night gigs for not only the Brian Epstein NEMS stable but other locally independent Liverpool / Birkenhead groups as well. I used to love going to the historical roman city of Chester during those Thursday spring and summer evenings because it was a world apart from the more industrialised Liverpool and Birkenhead. Mind you, catching that last train back always seemed to cut the night off short for me.
What initially attracted me to this forum was the sub-section on the Iron Door Club. While I had really nothing against the nearby and now obviously better known Cavern Club, I tended to prefer the atmosphere of the slightly larger IDC. When a few of us did start to venture regularly across the river, for public (ease of late-night getting back home) transport reasons, we invariably only ever concentrated on these two Liverpool City centre venues with occasional forays to the Mardi Gras. Being that both the Cavern and the IDC were only a hop-step-and-a-jump away from James Street Station and one stop away from Hamilton Square.
Whenever I think of the Cavern, I think of cheese rolls. Near enough every time I fancied something eat in there – cheese rolls were all they had left. The other thing I became very wary of was the state of some of the walls. Lean against them and one’s coat sleeves would be covered in dandruff like dust.
Saturdays were always favourite, case of killing two birds with one stone so to speak. Saturday afternoon it was off to Goodison Park if Everton were playing [soccer] at home. Traditionally English soccer games always started at 3pm on a Saturday afternoon and finished at 4.45pm. Then catch the bus back into Liverpool City Centre for something to eat. Usually a sit-down, of a plate of battered cod, chips / french fries and mushy peas with a side order of bread-and-butter and a much tea as we could drink.
Back then in the UK there were broadly two types of ‘fish and chip’ shops. The stand-up type where one was simply served with the food and left the premises to consume it elsewhere. The sit-down sort were one had the option to either eat on or off the premises. Occasionally, one or two of us had to skip the after game sit-down meal to get back across the river to get changed and hook with current girl friends for a Saturday evening out.
Come 6 o’clock the pubs would open following their afternoon siesta – no such thing as all day opening hours in those days – pubs were generally open in evening from 6pm to 10.30pm. Depending on the state of our finances and the age of some of our crew (the legal UK beer drinking age was and still is 18) we’d seek out a watering hole down some side street or other and talk about anything that caught our fancy over a few pints until it was time to make a move.
On the Saturdays that Everton was not playing at home and we had no reason to go into Liverpool during the afternoon. Then it was left up to the individual to make his own plans however, a few of us would invariably bump into one another during the course of an evening.
I recall seeing Pete Best on any number of occasions but in particular I remember Mona, his mother at some of the venues. For a woman then in her late 30s she stood out like a well carried for rose amongst daises. She wasn’t all that tall but she had striking jet-black hair that was always well groomed, a curvy figure, immaculate dress sense and a very attractive round face. Of course, we all thought that Mrs Best was there to check up on her son. What we didn’t know was the nature of her relationship with Neil Aspinall.
The thing that sticks in my mind about The Beatles at that particular time were the black leather jeans they often wore. Black leather jackets we all knew about – but leather jeans were something new on Merseyside at the time. Personally, I always tended to identify with George Harrison. To me, he always appeared to be well drilled in what he was doing onstage. From my audience standpoint, I thought that at times John Lennon had the makings of a sarcastic SOB. There were occasions when he would have a vaguely disinterested / condescending look about him. Paul McCartney was your more animated and chatty audience participation type. The overall impression they tended to generate was one of being a very together unit. Obviously at the time, none of us knew very much about their Hamburg experiences, that all came out at a later date.
When The Beatles came across the river to the Birkenhead side to perform, the Majestic or Grosvenor Ballrooms were favourite places for us. I always had a soft spot for the Majestic being I seemed to have more luck with the girls there than anywhere else. In particular I remember a girl (not that I ever got to know her) by the name of Ida Holly who would from time to time get up on the stage between sets and do a bit of continuity chat. Her particular claim to fame was when John Lennon was not seeing Cynthia he was seeing Ida Holly.
Taken from the 1963 Beat City TV Documentary - a YouTube clip inside the Majestic Ballroom - the first 10 seconds of which is Ida Holly doing the intro - and no, I wasn't there at the time.
While I then quite liked the resort of New Brighton, which is not all that far from Birkenhead, I never did take to the Tower Ballroom there – too big and impersonal for my taste. Less than 500 in there and the place seemed empty to me – instead much preferred the smaller Kraal Club.
I well remember the first time a few of us went to the River Park Ballroom in Chester to purposely see The Beatles. The Mersey Beat newspaper had reported that Pete Best had got the push and had been replaced by Ringo Starr. Brian Epstein had booked them to do four Thursday night gigs at the River Park Ballroom in Chester for what I’ve since discovered was a fee of £25 [$50] per gig. The story goes that Pete Best’s services were dispensed with shortly before the first gig. Ringo Starr was unavailable so the Big Three’s Johnny Hutchinson covered for him. I understand that two Thursday’s later [which would have been the third booking] was the day that John Lennon married Cynthia. I’m almost certain we did the 45-minute train journey for the fourth and last Thursday date of the Chester quartet because I remember that the bus would have been a cheaper option but the last night train back to Birkenhead ran a lot later that the last bus did.
It was on the strength of these four initial bookings that the River Park Ballroom started to stage regular Thursday night gigs for not only the Brian Epstein NEMS stable but other locally independent Liverpool / Birkenhead groups as well. I used to love going to the historical roman city of Chester during those Thursday spring and summer evenings because it was a world apart from the more industrialised Liverpool and Birkenhead. Mind you, catching that last train back always seemed to cut the night off short for me.
Re: Beatle Songs pre-EMI
Thanks Peter - great stuff. Neil and Mona? Who'da thunk it? Kind of an age difference there since Neil was Pete's chum and Mona must have been at least late 30's.
>>>> went to the River Park Ballroom in Chester to purposely see The Beatles. The Mersey Beat newspaper had reported that Pete Best had got the push and had been replaced by Ringo Starr. .....The story goes that Pete Best’s services were dispensed with shortly before the first gig. Ringo Starr was unavailable so the Big Three’s Johnny Hutchinson covered for him.
Yes, Pete was given the boot on Aug 16th 1962 and that night Johnny Hutchinson filled in at the River Park Ballroom (Chester) gig. News of the even must have gotten out and traveled quickly. Hutchinson played one other gig with them, on the following night, at the Horticulture Society Dance in Birkenhead. We've all read about how Pete was very popular and how the Beatles took a bit of a hit with their fans when he was fired. Since you saw the Beatles only hours after the firing, was there much talk about Pete at the time?
So, I'm guessing that you saw the Beatles in the first half of '62 (post Brian Epstein) and also (given the comment about their leathers) in 1961 (pre-Brian). About what date was the first time you saw them? Can you tell us more about their sound? Was it particularly loud? One thing that is little mentioned is that groups in those days had relatively basic amps and certainly no stomp boxes. I would think that this meant that every song had more of a similar sound than what we'd expect today. Was it simply the case that they turned it up to 11 and let it rip? How much time was there between songs?
How did the other groups on the bill do? I would guess you might have seen 'The Swinging Blue Genes' or 'The Big Three' or 'the Four Jays' or (naturally) 'Gerry and the Pacemakers' or Billy Kramer and the Coasters, or 'The Red River Jazzmen' or Joe Brown and the Bruvvers' or 'Johnny Kid and the Pirates' or 'The Dakotas' or 'The Mersey Beats' or 'Ken Dallas & the Silhouettes' or (of course) 'Rory Storm and the Hurricanes'.... etc etc etc
>>>> went to the River Park Ballroom in Chester to purposely see The Beatles. The Mersey Beat newspaper had reported that Pete Best had got the push and had been replaced by Ringo Starr. .....The story goes that Pete Best’s services were dispensed with shortly before the first gig. Ringo Starr was unavailable so the Big Three’s Johnny Hutchinson covered for him.
Yes, Pete was given the boot on Aug 16th 1962 and that night Johnny Hutchinson filled in at the River Park Ballroom (Chester) gig. News of the even must have gotten out and traveled quickly. Hutchinson played one other gig with them, on the following night, at the Horticulture Society Dance in Birkenhead. We've all read about how Pete was very popular and how the Beatles took a bit of a hit with their fans when he was fired. Since you saw the Beatles only hours after the firing, was there much talk about Pete at the time?
So, I'm guessing that you saw the Beatles in the first half of '62 (post Brian Epstein) and also (given the comment about their leathers) in 1961 (pre-Brian). About what date was the first time you saw them? Can you tell us more about their sound? Was it particularly loud? One thing that is little mentioned is that groups in those days had relatively basic amps and certainly no stomp boxes. I would think that this meant that every song had more of a similar sound than what we'd expect today. Was it simply the case that they turned it up to 11 and let it rip? How much time was there between songs?
How did the other groups on the bill do? I would guess you might have seen 'The Swinging Blue Genes' or 'The Big Three' or 'the Four Jays' or (naturally) 'Gerry and the Pacemakers' or Billy Kramer and the Coasters, or 'The Red River Jazzmen' or Joe Brown and the Bruvvers' or 'Johnny Kid and the Pirates' or 'The Dakotas' or 'The Mersey Beats' or 'Ken Dallas & the Silhouettes' or (of course) 'Rory Storm and the Hurricanes'.... etc etc etc
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shamustwin
- Senior Member
- Posts: 5285
- Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2003 5:00 am
Re: Beatle Songs pre-EMI
Fascinating stuff!
+1 to Brammy's questions and more, please!
+1 to Brammy's questions and more, please!
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hamilton_square
- Member
- Posts: 352
- Joined: Wed Jan 31, 2007 8:26 am
Re: Beatle Songs pre-EMI
Re : Mona Best and Neil Aspinall
Mona Best – Reportedly born 3rd January 1924 : Died 9th September 1988
Neil Aspinall – Reportedly born 13th October 1941 : Died 23rd March 2008
Age difference 18 years therefore, circa 1962, Mona Best would have been 39 and Neil Aspinall 21.
With or without its relevancy to The Beatles early history, considering the close personal friendship between Pete Best and Neil Aspinall, it does still require a great deal of getting one’s head around – even from this distance of time. However, given the age difference involved and the somewhat conservative nature of British society at the time, nobody should be at all surprised that the matter was, for a long time, kept out of the public domain. Indeed, that is were it would still be today if events surrounding The Beatles hadn't become such enduring matters of universal public interest. I daresay that there may well be a fair few of us who have similar skeletons in our family cupboards / closets that we’d prefer remained private – for as I understand Americans are prone to say from time to time – it happens!
Re : The Pete Best Dismissal
Being separated from Liverpool by the width of the River Mersey, we in Birkenhead (at that time) were a lit bit at the end of the jungle telegraph concerning the Pete Best controversy. Forget the non-print media, being nationally based it was simply then not interested in such local musical matters. On the other side of the river, we were very much dependant on what we read for our information. Our then principal text sources were the daily [except Sunday] Liverpool Echo that reported on local Liverpool / Birkenhead news and the Mersey Beat, a weekly news sheet that concentrated exclusively on the club scene. Other than Liverpool Echo there was also another daily [except Sunday] newspaper called the Liverpool Daily Post but that was aimed at the much wider outlying areas of Merseyside. The end of the week editions of the Liverpool Echo and the once-a-week Mersey Beat were then very important to us because, in the form of advertising, they were gig guides as to who was performing where and when.
For me personally, I didn’t get to find out about the Pete Best dismissal until I read about it in the Mersey Beat. And, in all honesty, other than a shrug of the shoulders’ surprise, it all had very little impact on me. From this distance of time, what one needs to try and understand is that while The Beatles were then at the top of the pecking order of local groups, elsewhere nobody had ever heard of them. With the multitude of groups that were circulating around the area at the time, the inter-group movement of personnel was commonplace. Very much like the merry-go-round of professional sports, where players are constantly on the move from one team to another. And, also very similar to the sort of knee-jerk reaction of fans who protest about the departure of a favourite player because other than howls of dismay from a section of fans (mostly of the female variety) the Pete Best affair, locally speaking, faded very quickly. Obviously, with the passage of time and the resulting musical importance and stature of The Beatles within popular music, the Pete Best saga has effectively taken on a life of its own.
However, human nature being what it is, people do talk amongst themselves and leaving aside all that as already been suggested about the inferior drumming qualities of Pete Best. Be it right or be it wrong, the unsubstantiated gossip going round at the time involved internal group management concerns about the alleged possible disruptive influence of Mona Best. Believe me when I say that while Pete Best had a very laid back and easy going disposition, his mother was an extremely strong and forceful character – and I mean that in every sense of the phrase - she was most definitely not backward in coming forward. Even Pete Best has admitted in the course of subsequent interviews that she could be somewhat domineering at times. I’ve inserted a short YouTube clip of a Mona / Pete Best UK TV interview they did unknown ages ago that I feel demonstrates Pete Best’s deference to his mother.
Mona was the person who gave the final OK for her son to go to Hamburg – if she had said no then Pete Best would not have gone. In between Hamburg residencies it was Mona Best who supported the group, sometimes financially, in as much she was able to, when they returned to Liverpool. She was a very resourceful woman, she chased up on possible fresh bookings for them, she at times fed them, she helped out with cigarette and petrol / gas money, she was always there for them to fall back on for the little things. Which is probably where the thing with Neil Aspinall started to take root being that he was closely involved with the group by this time.
I’m led to believe that John Lennon very much liked Mrs Best, mainly because of her strength of character and evident maternal / family instincts. I also understand that it was John Lennon and Pete Best who put up the most initial resistance against Brian Epstein attempts to put The Beatles into suits. My own personal take on the matter is that if it had been left entirely up to John Lennon to decide, he would have stood by Pete Best. However, the combination of George Harrison and Paul McCartney (who I feel had already decided on such a course of action) together with negative feedback coming directly back from George Martin and through Brian Epstein eventually wore John Lennon down but nevertheless, my impression was it did very much leave a bad taste in his mouth, so to speak, considering what the four of them had gone through to get to such a point.
There was later allegedly unsubstantiated local gossip that when The Beatles quickly hit the big time and started to make millions the contribution that Pete Best had previously made was not financially forgotten. However, terms and conditions forbade those connected from ever talking about it. For if there's one thing Liverpool people are good at doing is keeping their mouths shut to those who don't need to know about such sensitive and personal things. While it’s now a matter of public record of the financial benefit that Pete Best later reaped from release of The Beatles Anthology – which coincidently was overseen by Neil Aspinall. During the intervening years it was noticeable, admittedly from a narrow Liverpool perspective, that Pete Best seemed to be apparently getting by quite comfortably relative to his long-time day job and pay scale as a local government employee.
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I need a time-out but hopefully will be back with more recollections following a suitable interval.
Mona Best – Reportedly born 3rd January 1924 : Died 9th September 1988
Neil Aspinall – Reportedly born 13th October 1941 : Died 23rd March 2008
Age difference 18 years therefore, circa 1962, Mona Best would have been 39 and Neil Aspinall 21.
With or without its relevancy to The Beatles early history, considering the close personal friendship between Pete Best and Neil Aspinall, it does still require a great deal of getting one’s head around – even from this distance of time. However, given the age difference involved and the somewhat conservative nature of British society at the time, nobody should be at all surprised that the matter was, for a long time, kept out of the public domain. Indeed, that is were it would still be today if events surrounding The Beatles hadn't become such enduring matters of universal public interest. I daresay that there may well be a fair few of us who have similar skeletons in our family cupboards / closets that we’d prefer remained private – for as I understand Americans are prone to say from time to time – it happens!
Re : The Pete Best Dismissal
Being separated from Liverpool by the width of the River Mersey, we in Birkenhead (at that time) were a lit bit at the end of the jungle telegraph concerning the Pete Best controversy. Forget the non-print media, being nationally based it was simply then not interested in such local musical matters. On the other side of the river, we were very much dependant on what we read for our information. Our then principal text sources were the daily [except Sunday] Liverpool Echo that reported on local Liverpool / Birkenhead news and the Mersey Beat, a weekly news sheet that concentrated exclusively on the club scene. Other than Liverpool Echo there was also another daily [except Sunday] newspaper called the Liverpool Daily Post but that was aimed at the much wider outlying areas of Merseyside. The end of the week editions of the Liverpool Echo and the once-a-week Mersey Beat were then very important to us because, in the form of advertising, they were gig guides as to who was performing where and when.
For me personally, I didn’t get to find out about the Pete Best dismissal until I read about it in the Mersey Beat. And, in all honesty, other than a shrug of the shoulders’ surprise, it all had very little impact on me. From this distance of time, what one needs to try and understand is that while The Beatles were then at the top of the pecking order of local groups, elsewhere nobody had ever heard of them. With the multitude of groups that were circulating around the area at the time, the inter-group movement of personnel was commonplace. Very much like the merry-go-round of professional sports, where players are constantly on the move from one team to another. And, also very similar to the sort of knee-jerk reaction of fans who protest about the departure of a favourite player because other than howls of dismay from a section of fans (mostly of the female variety) the Pete Best affair, locally speaking, faded very quickly. Obviously, with the passage of time and the resulting musical importance and stature of The Beatles within popular music, the Pete Best saga has effectively taken on a life of its own.
However, human nature being what it is, people do talk amongst themselves and leaving aside all that as already been suggested about the inferior drumming qualities of Pete Best. Be it right or be it wrong, the unsubstantiated gossip going round at the time involved internal group management concerns about the alleged possible disruptive influence of Mona Best. Believe me when I say that while Pete Best had a very laid back and easy going disposition, his mother was an extremely strong and forceful character – and I mean that in every sense of the phrase - she was most definitely not backward in coming forward. Even Pete Best has admitted in the course of subsequent interviews that she could be somewhat domineering at times. I’ve inserted a short YouTube clip of a Mona / Pete Best UK TV interview they did unknown ages ago that I feel demonstrates Pete Best’s deference to his mother.
Mona was the person who gave the final OK for her son to go to Hamburg – if she had said no then Pete Best would not have gone. In between Hamburg residencies it was Mona Best who supported the group, sometimes financially, in as much she was able to, when they returned to Liverpool. She was a very resourceful woman, she chased up on possible fresh bookings for them, she at times fed them, she helped out with cigarette and petrol / gas money, she was always there for them to fall back on for the little things. Which is probably where the thing with Neil Aspinall started to take root being that he was closely involved with the group by this time.
I’m led to believe that John Lennon very much liked Mrs Best, mainly because of her strength of character and evident maternal / family instincts. I also understand that it was John Lennon and Pete Best who put up the most initial resistance against Brian Epstein attempts to put The Beatles into suits. My own personal take on the matter is that if it had been left entirely up to John Lennon to decide, he would have stood by Pete Best. However, the combination of George Harrison and Paul McCartney (who I feel had already decided on such a course of action) together with negative feedback coming directly back from George Martin and through Brian Epstein eventually wore John Lennon down but nevertheless, my impression was it did very much leave a bad taste in his mouth, so to speak, considering what the four of them had gone through to get to such a point.
There was later allegedly unsubstantiated local gossip that when The Beatles quickly hit the big time and started to make millions the contribution that Pete Best had previously made was not financially forgotten. However, terms and conditions forbade those connected from ever talking about it. For if there's one thing Liverpool people are good at doing is keeping their mouths shut to those who don't need to know about such sensitive and personal things. While it’s now a matter of public record of the financial benefit that Pete Best later reaped from release of The Beatles Anthology – which coincidently was overseen by Neil Aspinall. During the intervening years it was noticeable, admittedly from a narrow Liverpool perspective, that Pete Best seemed to be apparently getting by quite comfortably relative to his long-time day job and pay scale as a local government employee.
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I need a time-out but hopefully will be back with more recollections following a suitable interval.
Re: Beatle Songs pre-EMI
Great stuff, thanks again.
Interesting take on Mona aspect of Pete's ouster. That may very well have been part of the mix, but from everything I've read the bottom line came down to the "clash of personalities" that was mentioned in the clip. Pete just never broke into that tight nit clique that was John, Paul and George. As for his drumming ability, I think that (George Martin aside) Pete's drumming was plenty good enough. The early recordings are there for proof of this. Was Ringo a slightly better drummer? Perhaps, but I think Pete's ouster had been considered by the other 3 for some time and George Martin's comment was just the spark that ignited the fire(ing). Mona is certainly right that the way it was done was shameful. The Fabs really pussied out on that one.
As for Epstein putting the group in suits and cleaning up their act, someone somewhere put it well that THAT was the moment that the group went from being "John's group" to being "Paul's group". Lennon said in later years that they sold out, and I can see that he would feel that way, but it's not like John had to be dragged kicking and screaming into the Edwardian suits. He had stardom and dollar signs (quid signs?) twinkling in his eye as much as the others did.
If I could go back in time and see just ONE Beatle gig, the time period I'd pick would be the fall of '61. Someone else has said something to the effect: "if you never saw the Beatles with Pete Best and his atomic beat then you never saw the Beatles". Certainly their act changed tremendously after Brian took control.
Could you touch on the gigs themselves? What was the sound like? WHEN exactly did you see them?
Interesting take on Mona aspect of Pete's ouster. That may very well have been part of the mix, but from everything I've read the bottom line came down to the "clash of personalities" that was mentioned in the clip. Pete just never broke into that tight nit clique that was John, Paul and George. As for his drumming ability, I think that (George Martin aside) Pete's drumming was plenty good enough. The early recordings are there for proof of this. Was Ringo a slightly better drummer? Perhaps, but I think Pete's ouster had been considered by the other 3 for some time and George Martin's comment was just the spark that ignited the fire(ing). Mona is certainly right that the way it was done was shameful. The Fabs really pussied out on that one.
As for Epstein putting the group in suits and cleaning up their act, someone somewhere put it well that THAT was the moment that the group went from being "John's group" to being "Paul's group". Lennon said in later years that they sold out, and I can see that he would feel that way, but it's not like John had to be dragged kicking and screaming into the Edwardian suits. He had stardom and dollar signs (quid signs?) twinkling in his eye as much as the others did.
If I could go back in time and see just ONE Beatle gig, the time period I'd pick would be the fall of '61. Someone else has said something to the effect: "if you never saw the Beatles with Pete Best and his atomic beat then you never saw the Beatles". Certainly their act changed tremendously after Brian took control.
Could you touch on the gigs themselves? What was the sound like? WHEN exactly did you see them?
Re: Beatle Songs pre-EMI
Good stuff! I'm enjoying reading these posts.
Re: Beatle Songs pre-EMI
Thanks for sharing Peter. Interesting stuff.
Re: Beatle Songs pre-EMI
Very interesting topic, Thanks Brammy and thanks Peter for sharing your experiences regarding that very special time and place in musical history. 