So what do you think?

[ozover50]

Last two:

[admin]

Howard: Thanks for these additional photos.

Ron: The fascination grows with each look at this instrument. It is beautifully done and Larry's work sets this guitar apart from others in so many respects.

[gregga41]

Fantastic Ron,
it's awesome! Can't wait to see this one!
BTW......... why wasn't I let in on this little secret?????

[jps]

This is a fantastic looking guitar, mate!

[jingle_jangle]

paul i am sorry to say this but this rant about cv superiority sounds like superiority complex to me....cv is good finish but that's about it. some people like nitro or some poly and in the end most of us get whatever the manufacturers throws at us even if it was quicksilver laced baboon **** finish. after all don't we get guitars for the sound ? really i don't think that most of us are buying rickenbacker guitar for *that* amazing cv finish.

Uh huh.

A good deal of the "rant" as you call it, is background information, and factual at that. I've aways thought of "rants" as personal opinion taken to an extreme. If I had wanted Rick to switch to CV, and kept harping on it to the point that readers would say, "Oh, no, not him again", then that would be a rant.

Fact remains that guitar finishes are not "opinion" or "preference". They are that way for reasons: marketing, manufacturability, durability, practicality, hype linked to profit margins. A player's personal preference is a whole other ball game, and I do not believe that it comes into the equation, and in any event, I was speaking strictly as a luthier.

Again: If CV is not superior in terms of protection of the wood underneath, and durability over decades, then why are the vast majority of manufacturers using one form of it or another? Boutique builders don't use it for the most part because of the learning curve; independent luthiers don't want to know--it's "too much trouble". It's not my opinion that it's a far superior finish to nitro, it's fact.

I could put blinders on, insist that nitro was just as good as CV (as many luthiers claim to their customers) and begin finishing customer's guitars in nitro, eliminate my backlog in a flash, and suffer the ire of my clients. I don't think a single one of my customers would want me to switch to nitro, just to bang out their instruments quicker.

Aitch: Agreed. Ron's guitar is gorgeous, as I've said more than once.

[jch]

I love that Ebony board ,and those inlays!

[dgwguitars]

Hello All!

It's been some time since I've posted on the board, but I've been looking in from time to time. First, my thanks to Ron for letting me customize his guitar. Thanks for the compliments, it was fun, with the best part being to have him be able to get something that he's wanted for some time.

Where am I? I'm located in a suburb of Atlanta, Georgia.

Regarding the finish on Ron's guitar (and all that I've done for some years now) is by Target Coatings (URL obvious), specifically their Ultima Spray Lacquer (USL), which was developed from their original Premium Spray Lacquer (PSL). It's tinted for the center, tinted & pigmented for the 'burst, and clear for the topcoats. I've used nitro, and ultimately went away from it for the some of the same reasons as Paul mentioned. I've also tried urethane, but finished it looked "plastic", which is no surprise, and was a bear to repair. USL is environmentally friendly and has good durability, if applied properly and allowed to cure. As Paul said, I'm looking into using a CV, probably the one made by Target, since it, like USL, is waterborne, but will do so in a guitar for myself before committing to it for a customer's guitar.

[doctorwho]

Welcome back, Larry, and congrats to you and Ron for a fantastic guitar!

[jingle_jangle]

Thanks for clarifying, Larry, and congrats on an incredible work of guitar artisanship.

If you need any more info on Cv, do write. I'll try to help all I can.

BTW, urethane "looks" plastic because it is plastic. I'm not sure if you're referring to the as-sprayed finish, or the flatted-and-buffed finish, but the standard for a newly-buffed CV surface is approximately the level of smoothness and gloss of glass. After a few months, it settles down a bit and becomes more friendly and less mechanistically, preternaturally perfect.

Catalyzing CV is very easy to repair; I do it all the time and so does the factory.

My own finish systems are as follows: vinyl sealer, (non-catalyzing) urethane color (burst or solid), urethane binding tint, and finally catalyzing urethane clearcoat ("varnish"). The non-catalyzing urethane has a special basecoat converter mixed into it to add a bit of film strength that pure mixing colors lack.

[whojamfan]

Very, very beautiful guitar transformation. Absolutely killer. You should indeed be proud of your dream come true!

I don't know CV from shinola, but I love that Rick finish, and if that's what it takes to get that unique "wet" and "glassy" full, rich color look, then count me in. I'm not a fan of that "bug in plastic" appearance that they use on cheaper import guitars. Looks are a big part of why I buy a guitar. That is why I will never own a Steinberger, not to offend anyone who does, but I think they are hideous.

[dgwguitars]

Thanks for clarifying, Larry, and congrats on an incredible work of guitar artisanship.

If you need any more info on Cv, do write. I'll try to help all I can.

BTW, urethane "looks" plastic because it is plastic. I'm not sure if you're referring to the as-sprayed finish, or the flatted-and-buffed finish, but the standard for a newly-buffed CV surface is approximately the level of smoothness and gloss of glass. After a few months, it settles down a bit and becomes more friendly and less mechanistically, preternaturally perfect.

Catalyzing CV is very easy to repair; I do it all the time and so does the factory.

My own finish systems are as follows: vinyl sealer, (non-catalyzing) urethane color (burst or solid), urethane binding tint, and finally catalyzing urethane clearcoat ("varnish"). The non-catalyzing urethane has a special basecoat converter mixed into it to add a bit of film strength that pure mixing colors lack.

Thanks, Paul. It's always good to get such feedback from someone such as yourself. I have a guy here in Atlanta that was instrumental in getting me kicked off in building guitars that I still go to for critiques / advice. At test of CV isn't too far off in the future, albeit probably a waterborne version.

[jingle_jangle]

Then you are ahead of me on that. My vendor won't sell me waterborne until it's legislated here...I think he has nightmares about the first-gen stuff. Do let us know how the waterborne works out for you. I'm intrigued.

[paologregorio]

Thanks for all of the inside info on finishing guitars Paul and Larry.

The bits about nitro are especially interesting. A local luthier I know likes to use nitro only, and my impression at the time I last had some refin work done was that nitro was more difficult to work with. Now I know better. I actually had my Bigsby MOTO thinline Tele body finished in poly awhile back through this luthier, but he sent it out to someone else.

Aitch, thanks for all of the extra pics. Nice!

[jingle_jangle]

Paul,

A layman can learn to spray nitro in a couple of hours. There are no special techniques to learn and it can be done with a simple spray rig and cheap gun with good results. After you've learned how to apply it, it's the sort of thing that you never forget. I was going to say that it can be applied by a chimpanzee in a pitch-black room, but some would find that offensive...but seriously, it's quite easy once you have good instruction. In fact, it could be considered as the basis of learning how to spray paint, because it's the easiest of all materials to apply.

So, your luthier was blowing smoke (as we say in locker room jargon). As to sending out his CV work, he probably has a deal with a car body paint shop. They do it all the time.

Incidentally, "poly" is a term that I'd sure like to disabuse guitarists of using about finishes. (Use it all you like about parrots and conures, Amazons, African Grays, etc...). It is simply too vague. There are two types of polys used in guitar finishing: polyester, and polyurethane. Conversion varnish is generally the latter. The two have little in common except that they are both in this case catalyzing finishes.

[paologregorio]

Incidentally, "poly" is a term that I'd sure like to disabuse guitarists of using about finishes. (Use it all you like about parrots and conures, Amazons, African Grays, etc...). It is simply too vague. There are two types of polys used in guitar finishing: polyester, and polyurethane. Conversion varnish is generally the latter. The two have little in common except that they are both in this case catalyzing finishes.

Good point. I thought it was a bit vague myself after reading this thread and others regarding finishes. Before this year I didn't even know polyester was used in guitar finishes. I was quoting the luthier from memory when I used the term . I probably should have typed "poly" instead of just typing in poly. I'm not sure what was used , though I am inclined to think it was polyurethane. The finish was done about seven years back.

I asked the luthier about conversion varnish but he said he wasn't familiar with it.