Lollar/RIC horseshoe swap ?

[gareth]

I've currently got a very nice Lollar horseshoe pickup in my '79 4001. It has a great classic sound. However, for the type pf stuff I'm doing these days, it doesn't match up well with the other RIC horseshoes that I have in my other basses. It means that I can't really swap out for it live without having to re-eq the amp to take account of the lower output and different tone. I want to get a RIC horseshoe in there, so I'd like to see if there's anyone here that wants to swap the Lollar for a later model RIC unit before I have to troll eBay forever to sell one and get the other.

Both the Lollar and the RIC horseshoe seem to go for around the same amount that last time I saw them on eBay. If you're looking to get that classic 68 sound and don't want to pay a grand for an original pickup, (if you can find one), this is the one to get IMHO. Paul W has seen this pickup, as he installed it in the bass originally, so he can vouch for the workmanship on it if he's so inclined.

Obvously, these pickups are not available any longer from Lollar, so they are rarely seen on sale.

[whojamfan]

Why not just have your pickup rewound to match the output of the others? Unless the construction components are different(like between high gains and toasters)it shouldn't be a problem for some fellow forumites(like Sergio), or any of the pickup manufacturers custom shop. Either way, why do the whole ebay deal that may have you out of a pickup waiting for the next one to appear to replace it.

Swapping, of course, is always cool, but I hate selling anything, because cash always has a way of making it somewhere else if given the opportunity. This is why I prefer trading gear for gear, because at least I know got something for item instead of the money going to some bill or something.

Anyways, best of luck with your pickup situation.

[johnallg]

Gareth, I might be interested. What is the winding of the Lollar and are the shoes magnetized?

[soundmasterg]

Mike the Lollar horseshoe is like the old pre '68 horseshoes and nothing like the current "horseshoe" pickups that use alnico magnets. It is a completely different design than the modern RIC pickup and it isn't a simple matter to just rewind it to be more like the modern RIC ones. It is a weaker pickup like the vintage horseshoes and it is designed to be that way. Just a simple rewind won't increase the output enough to match with the modern RIC horseshoe.

Greg

[gareth]

Gareth, I might be interested. What is the winding of the Lollar and are the shoes magnetized?

Yep John, it's a true magnetized shoe pickup. I can't remember the actual winding of it right now. I'll look and see if I have the original box and paperwork for it and let you know, or I'll email Jason and see if he will tell me. I know that it's not really possible to rewind it, and I really wouldn't want to, as you would lose that classic reedy tone. It's a very well made hand produced item, and secretly, I'd hate to lose it, but I'd rather it went to a bass player that can use it properly. It's one of the last ones that Jason made, as I was going to get two, but he had the old "cease and desist" not long after I got the first.

[whojamfan]

Greg,
Thanks for the heads up, as I obviously had no idea about the differences. It's really a shame that some parts are completely unavailable, and if anyone tries to help out, RIC goes ballistic on them. I guess they believe that only certain items should be available through their boutique, and too bad for everyone else who needs stuff for older instruments that they no longer make. Really kind of sucks for the proud and loyal Rick owner who needs replacement parts that RIC will either not sell(except fitted on certain models), no longer make, or liscense/allow anyone else to offer these items.

I love my Ricks, like we all do, but come on RIC, don't leave us hanging or at the mercy of Ebay and the like.
I am not trying to hijack the thread, and wish you the best of luck with swapping those pickups.

[wints]

An old lapsteel HS with an early 70's hi-gain bobbin should get you close if you want that 60's sound. If you want to go a step furthur, send the whole assembly to Dale, and he'll convert the LS 6 polepiece bobbin into a 4 pole bass one, and then you do have basically, the real thing.

[jwr2]

I'm a high gain / hb1 guy all the way ... after playing a 68 4001 for 30 years I will never go back the messing with shoes.

[basmansam]

Gareth, I would be interested in swapping for your loller HS, I have a V63 with an original Ric HS.

[jingle_jangle]

...we have a BINGO!!! Please hold your cards until the winner is verified...

[bottom4]

I have a V63 with an original Ric HS.

Sam, what year is your V63?

[basmansam]

Andy,

It's a 2000 V63, I bought it from Scott Dosceck last year. It's a great bass, the HS is very HOT!!

[cheyenne]

I can verify that HS being very hot indeed.

[gareth]

Here's what i got from Lollar today on it.

From what I can tell from Jason's notes, it looks like right around 8K.
(assuming it's not a 10 string)

[soundmasterg]

As Mr. Hall has noted in the past, the old horseshoes with real, magnetized shoes like RIC made before 1968 have a tendancy to de-magnetize and they get weaker and weaker as time goes on. I've no idea if the Lollars do this or not, but if so, they can most likely be recharged the same as the old RIC pickups are. The main thing to me is the sound, and they certainly sound different than the modern interpretation of the horseshoe, and they sound different than the high gain and humbuckers too. I've got a Lollar horseshoe also, though I haven't used it yet. I expect that it will have a great sound like all of his products do however.

Regarding the availability of parts and the legal issues associated with producing a pickup such as the old horseshoes, it has been noted in some quarters that certain aspects of the RIC trademark on the horseshoe pickup are related to the functional aspect of it and that this could invalidate the trademark if someone wanted to challenge it. Whether that is true or not is beyond me, but since the trademark wasn't granted until the last couple years, I believe that Lollar's pickup spurred RIC into trying to protect their designs, even though their modern horseshoe isn't the same as the clone of the old ones that he was making. Whether they will be able to do that over time in regards to this particular pickup design remains to be seen, but I agree with you that it is unfortunate that for those who want the old design, they have to spend a bundle on ebay to get that sound instead of being able to go to RIC and get one.

Greg