4004Cii

[tmossman]

Queue order and business efficiency are often diametrically opposed. A change in production and parts to the lower volume products can have potentially huge impact on the higher volume products. You are literally forced to choose who to **** off the few or the many. Common sense says the few. Every first year business school textbook has an example of this sort of problem.

The comparison to Alembic et al. is a not even an apples and oranges discussion but more of an apples and carburetors discussion. Alembic has always been a custom shop, Rickenbacker is not. Alembic does not have a fan base demanding for guitars to be made exactlylike oneguitar was made in the sixties. Alembic does not have to churn out hundreds (thousands?) of standard models as Rickenbacker does. Rickenbacker could cancel all the historical models tomorrow and build all the custom 4004's and 650's the world desires. The impact to their bottom line however would be huge. Again common sense says that this is not a prudent choice.

I think one of the problems (and probably my opinion only) is that many dealers require large or full deposits for ordering guitars. If you pay full price for a 4004 and have to wait 1, 2, 3+ years that would annoy almost anyone. My dealer requires a small, fully refundable deposit. (My dealer is the best in the country btw). Two days after I "discovered" 4004's I bought one on ebay, two months later I ordered another (they are that good). I have now waited 1 year for the second and I don't care if I wait another year. Why? Because I have other basses and I can get a refund if I change my mind and want to buy something else. Nothing to get upset about. If you were new to Rickenbacker and wanted to order one just to see if you would like it, a small deposit placed while buying something else (Alembic perhaps) would be an acceptable course of action.

(and Mr Wood just wrote almost the same thing in less words while I wrote this)

[VRICKY63]

Hmmmm...with all this praise....looks like a good time to sell my FG4004Cii..............................................Not ! I put the HB1s back in and wired it VV . She kills ! The B will knock you down !

[rickenbrother]

Here's my take on 4004cii production. Its all about economies of scale - in other words, if you produce an item at greater quantities, you can produce it faster and cheaper. So if RIC is producing hundreds of 4003's, its ultimately more profitable for the company, which may lead to keeping the "bread and butter" models in high production. There also probably needs to be a minimum quantity on order to justify a production run, as I'm sure there is lost time during the manufacturing crossover from one model to another. For instance when was the last time we saw a run of mandolins? No its not a great situation waiting three years plus for a 4004cii, but it does appear that RIC is sincere about addressing the issue as they go forward.

+1
Steve, some might think you are missing the same point that I am!

[aceonbass]

If I were paying $5,000.00-$20,000.00 for an Alembic, I would expect it fast too. They sell far fewer instruments than RIC. According to their website, orders must be placed through a dealer as they don't sell direct, so I don't know how anyone could buy direct from them and get a deal.

[nukebass]

I didn't mind waiting two years and even into the third. I understand the concept of demand and impact on production and why 4004s aren't made all that often. I'm really just worried that the four BBRs that got shipped this week are all that were made in the batch and who knows when the next batch will be made. I've been pretty good natured about the wait, I think, for a while and I'm just starting to get a little aggravated at the whole situation. I want a BBR and I got, especially in today's dollars, a good price so buying something used isn't an option for me right now.

It's pretty bad, though; I complained when they didn't ship and now I'm complaining when they have shipped I think I just have to find something to complain about...

[86kubicki]

So Dan, what should RIC be doing with regard to the 4004?

[bottom4]

Here's my take on 4004cii production. Its all about economies of scale - in other words, if you produce an item at greater quantities, you can produce it faster and cheaper. So if RIC is producing hundreds of 4003's, its ultimately more profitable for the company, which may lead to keeping the "bread and butter" models in high production. There also probably needs to be a minimum quantity on order to justify a production run, as I'm sure there is lost time during the manufacturing crossover from one model to another. For instance when was the last time we saw a run of mandolins? No its not a great situation waiting three years plus for a 4004cii, but it does appear that RIC is sincere about addressing the issue as they go forward.

I'd say you nailed it right on the head, Steve

[86kubicki]

I'll assume the question is not a red herring & that you really want to know.

Yes, I was quite sincere in knowing your thoughts on this matter.

Since the current way of scheduling the 4004 creates disincentives, it's consistent with the aim of reducing demand. In that case, they should keep doing exactly what they've been doing. Creating disincentives is an especially effective way to reduce demand.

So you think that RIC purposely keeps production levels on the 4004's low so that they don't have a chance to gain in popularity? If that's the case, why don't they just ditch the 4004's altogether and concentrate on the more profitable 4003's?

[aceonbass]

RIC builds what sells in the ratio that it sells, based on the orders that are placed with them. They will build all of the instruments that are ordered from them in batches scheduled to get them built in the most efficient way possible. Those of us here(and there are many) who've actualy talked with John Hall about his company, know that much of the lame specualtion going on here just isn't true. My comparison to Alembic was based on the quality, look and feel of my two 4004Cii's compared to the Essence I used to own.

[rickenbrother]

Dan, before I joined this forum, I thought I had a fair amount of knowledge about RIC and Rickenbackers instruments. I actually knew very little.
In about a day, I'll be a member of this forum for 6 years. I also lurked for about two months before I joined. Within the past 6 years, I've learned a lot about RIC and Rickenbacker instruments through the sharing of knowledge of forumites here including John Hall and RIC employees. I've had the pleasure of getting to tour the RIC factory twice. Those were quite enjoyable learning experiences right there! I've also had the pleasure of meeting and talking to John Hall and other people at RIC at confluences and NAMM shows which were more excellent learning experiences. As much as I've learned, I look forward to learning more.
Don't just assume you know what's going on and what RIC should do. Read the forum and learn. It''s okay to ask questions, but to come on here and just make assumptions that seem like RIC is purposely not making 4004's just to agitate you and a handful of others is ridiculous.
If all this bothers you so much, then a RIC instrument is not for you. Buy something else...but it won't be as good as a Rick.

[aceonbass]

Neither do we. It was starting to get a little crowded in here wasn't it Joey? Down in only 21 posts!

[VRICKY63]

Jeeez ! Way to serious . Buy a 4004 , 4003 , 4001 ,Fender P ...........Play Bass . Vibrate the world with beautiful notes . Have a Martini . Kiss someone . Be Light .

[cheyenne]

My 2 cents.... (refering to the backlog, and criticizm of RIC's method's)

You DONT have to wait!!! If you look hard enough you can usually find what you want sitting in a store somewhere. The internet has made this possible.

If you dont want to hurt your dealer's feelings, and feel obligated to order one, yeah you got to do your time on the waiting list.

The 4004's that turn up on Ebay that nobody will bid on just because their maybe $200.00 overpriced? SUCK IT UP AND BUY ONE!

It'l save you alot of stress in the long run.........Sorry, but I think the whole "wait thing" is laughable.

[admin]

Scott: Excellent comments.

A further point that may be worthy of consideration is that RickResource Forum members have often found instruments for others. Sometimes even from their own stable of instruments.

Daniel the RRF is a network that is growing and you could use it to your advantage.

[jwr2]

Viva the 4004!