What to do with Ric 4001 in storage?? RE: Strings?

[Zentner]

I have an old rickenbacker that I need to keep stored for a few months until I'm back in town to play it again... but what should I do with it while it's sitting in it's case? Should I loosen all the strings off, or should I keep it tuned up to pitch? I should mention that the truss rods are tightened at TIGHT as they go and my action is still reasonably high, so I REALLY want to prevent the neck from moving up at all (I'd really like it go backbowed alot more, but that doesn't seem possible...) What's going to be the best thing to ensure that the neck doesn't pull up any more?

[gshadoan]

JH has said to leave them at full tension/tuned.

[rickenbrother]

Leave the strings tuned to concert pitch. Make sure the 4001 is stored in it's case and put in a place where it won't be subjected to heat or any other adverse condition. When you are ready to play it again, I'm sure the right choice of strings and a proper setup will have it playing great again.

[gshadoan]

Is there an echo in here?

[jlessick]

I should mention that the truss rods are tightened at TIGHT as they go and my action is still reasonably high

You might want to search for the adjustment procedure for 4001 basses. Tightening the truss rods has no effect on the action. You have to loosen the rods, adjust the neck, then tighten the rods. The rods hold the neck in position, but will not move the neck into position.

[doctorwho]

Is there an echo in here?

I get that effect a lot around here ...

[jwr2]

Leave it in tune ... that is best.

[antipodean]

Don't leave it in storage, leave it with me! It'll be fine when you return!

[jingle_jangle]

I'm going to contradict the advice to leave it tuned. Here's what I'd do and why:

I would detune it and loosen the truss rods. In fact, I'd remove the nuts and if possible pull the rods and remove the strings, too.

Am I nuts? Don't answer that.

Reasoning: You already have the rods cranked up as far as they will go, and there's lots of relief. Chances are you'll return and things will be the same, if you just leave it tuned and set up as it is right now.

But, there's an opportunity here to get things to a point where you'll be able to start over in a sense: A couple of months during which time, stresses of string and rod tension can be relieved, and your neck can be allowed to return to rest. Then, you can properly arc the rods, clean the threads, lubricate everything and get it ready for re-assembly. You can check what your "rested" neck measures in its new, unstressed, set. Then you can re-insert the rods, restring it, and get things adjusted again over a couple of weeks' time. Chances are you'll end up with a whole lot less stress on the neck and possibly even a good deal of headroom for adjustment of the neck that you didn't have before you stored it and gave it a good rest.

BTW, if you're gonna do this, store it vertically at reasonable temp and humidity, body down.

[Zentner]

That's kinda the argument I've been wondering about.

Do you happen to have a proper procedure for pulling the truss rods from my neck? I obviously don't want to pull the fretboard off or anything... so yea.... but if I could pull the neck a little more flat... I'd love to do that.

Also... is it a possibility my neck could continue to bend up and I'd end up in worse shape than I'm already in?

[jingle_jangle]

That's kinda the argument I've been wondering about.

Do you happen to have a proper procedure for pulling the truss rods from my neck? I obviously don't want to pull the fretboard off or anything... so yea.... but if I could pull the neck a little more flat... I'd love to do that.

Also... is it a possibility my neck could continue to bend up and I'd end up in worse shape than I'm already in?

To remove the truss rods, first remove the TRC. Then loosen the truss rod hex nuts with a long shaft 1/4" nut driver. You could use a 1/4" socket on a small ratchet or breaker bar, but NEVER use anything but a nut driver to tighten them up or adjust them--a ratchet or breaker bar allows you to develop too much torque and increases the possibility of popping the fretboard. So you might as well use the proper tool from the start.

Now, I'll also warn you that about 25% of old-style folded truss rods (in my experience) do not pull easily due to corrosion. So if they don't budge, you'll have to either let them be or drive them out, for which I have a couple of methods and will detail one.

Remember I said loosen the truss rod hex nuts, not remove them...but you should remove them at first to make it possible to get the aluminum spacer off. Then screw the nuts back on; you'll need them screwed onto the threads so the tip of the rod is just barely poking through the end of the long nut in each case. I firmly clamp a Vise Grip onto the nut so it's vertical to the neck (in other words, not laying down, but standing up). I will then tap the vise grip as close to the nut as I can get with a hammer, in the direction of the headstock (the direction in which I want the rods to move). Gentle taps at first. If you really have to wail on it, you have a stuck rod, and should choose between leaving it or risking some hard pounding, which does no damage as long as you don't slip...

The rod will hopefully begin to shift. If it looks as if it will scrape the end of the truss rod rout in the headstock, you'll have to have someone pull upward on the Vise Grips so it clears as you tap. Once the hex nut has cleared the rout, you're generally in safe territory. The further out it comes, the easier it is to slide.

Repeat for the other rod.

Now if you absolutely can't get those rods to budge at all with this method, you can choose to leave them in but fully loosened; this will allow the neck to relax but not all the way. There will still be benefits but you won't be able to be too scientific about setting it back up.

A method for initially shifting the rods if you can't get them to budge with the Vise Grip method: I use a special piece of steel rod that is ground to the same rectangular cross-section as the truss rod channel in the neck. You can use a 3"-4" long piece of steel rod or even a small screwdriver if it is still stout enough to go into the channel from the body side without tearing up the channel, and provided also that it's strong enough to survive some hammer blows.

You are going to drive the rods partially out through the headstock end, by tapping them out with a "drift" (piece of rod, punch or screwdriver) through the body end of the channel. In order to do this you must remove the pickguard. There are wires that need to be unsoldered and slid through their respective access holes. But the top of the bass must be clear of all obstructions, not only because you can damage something if you slip, but also because having the neck pickup in the way obstructs a clean swing of the hammer and proper positioning of the drift.

The aim is to get the rod to move a half-inch or so toward the headstock; just to break the initial sticking of the rod that it's gotten from sitting in one place for a few decades!

Place a bit of thin plywood over the top of the bass, with a thin towel underneath. I use masking tape wrapped around the whole bass/towel/plywood sandwich to hold everything together. Now slide the drift (rod) into the channel from the body end and hold it there with one hand.

Once the rod is inside the channel, tap on it with the hammer. Gradually increase the force of the hammer blows until the rod begins to move. It might be a small amount of movement at first, but once you've got a half-inch of movement or so, it should be easier to drive. Be sure you keep checking on the rout in the headstock, so the rod nut doesn't chew up the edge badly. The TRC will cover this anyway, but you don't want to get things too raggedy.

Once you've shifted the rod in this fashion, you can use the Vise Grip/hammer method outlined above to get the rod out all the way.

If all this sounds like too much work, fine. You can choose not to do it and leave the rods in place, or you can give this to your luthier as a guide to proper procedure.

After the bass has had a proper rest, and it's time to get it back together, follow these tips:

The rods as pulled should have a backward arc (with the center higher than the ends). They may or may not after all this time. I've seen straight rods and even rods with an "S" curve, once they are pulled. Anyway, you can re-arc the rods by carefully bending. I'll usually put about 2" of arc into a rod before re-inserting. This means that the center of the rod will be 2" higher than the ends. Proper orientation of a folded rod is important--the threaded, longer end should be on the bottom and the aluminum spacer will bear down on the square upper end.

Before you re-arc the rods, you should clean them of corrosion. If the plastic tape in between the two folded halves is missing, it generally means that the rods were pulled and the black tape was taken out by some unknowing, erm, person...it's there to prevent rattles.
I clean the corrosion off using a piece of Scotchbrite scouring pad, but medium-grade steel wool will work OK, too. Don't lube the rod with any sort of grease, and especially don't use WD-40!!! You can smear them with a paste-type wax (I use Johnson's Paste Floor Wax in the yellow tin) right before inserting them and sliding them back into place. I'll have the rod re-taped and the nut threaded back on before inserting. Because of the arc on the rod, care needs to be taken, especially when it comes time for the nut to clear the edge of the headstock rout. Another pair of hands will help here. I slip the nutdriver over the nut and tap on it with a hemmer--gently this time--until the rod is fully situated in the neck.

Of course, repeat for the other rod. Then remove the nuts, jockey the spacer into place (which can be fiddly but is not impossible) and replace the nuts. Adjusting is a topic for another post, later on.

[rictified]

I hate to contradict anyone but yes JH said leave them alone. I have many Rics and don't touch some of them for months at a time. I pull them out and play them, it's that simple, no set up, no new strings, it is not needed, they stay where they where as long as the it is in a house or some other temp controlled place, humidity may play with the neck a bit but a slight twist of the truss rods will fix that too. If your bass is left at pitch with the truss rods set properly the strings are keeping the neck locked in place, pull the truss rods and you leave it up to the weather although i have done that for periods of time with no problems but taking it all apart is not only a pain it is unnecessary IMHO unless you are having problems. But if you do for some unknown reason feel you just have to leave it detuned by all means loosen the truss rods completely and pull them out, you'll be sorry if you don't.

[rictified]

I should mention that the truss rods are tightened at TIGHT as they go and my action is still reasonably high

You might want to search for the adjustment procedure for 4001 basses. Tightening the truss rods has no effect on the action. You have to loosen the rods, adjust the neck, then tighten the rods. The rods hold the neck in position, but will not move the neck into position.

Again i hate to contradict anyone here but...
Of course the truss rods will change your action, too loose you will have very high action with the neck concave in the middle, too tight and it will buzz all over the place, you need to set the truss rods correctly (at pitch always), proper set up of a 4001 almost always involves adjusting the truss rods unless you have owned it yourself and already did it.
With a 4001 you have to take the forward tension off the neck from the pull of the strings before you turn the truss rods, how do you that is your business. I stand them on the floor with nut driver in hand in front of me with my knee behind the body and bass bottom behind my foot and pull the neck backwards sighting down the neck as I turn them, then let go and check. You may need to do this over a period of several days or even longer if the neck is really out or bowed in the middle as many of them get after years in the closet if they were improperly set in the first place.

[jingle_jangle]

Gentlemen, my advice was offered in light of Kevin's observations that his rod adjustments were bottomed out and still there was substantial relief. It was a way that I have used to get things back to normal for a very highly-stressed neck with no more adjustment possible. Sooner or later, something will have to be done to get this neck back within specs if the bass is to have any playing life left in it. I saw the hiatus in storage as a way to get a head start on the necessary work, without any down side.

Despite my tendency to wordiness--I used to write instruction manuals and clarity is always paramount in my mind--I probably was not clear enough to indicate that in no way are my directions to be taken as a "must do" or any sort of panacea.

[SixtyFour]

My $.02 on the subject, ...drop the strings 1/2 step down, [prefered method] >>>place inside case and be aware of the temp. and humidity conditions where it will be stored. Finally, as Paul W. mentioned, ...case should be in a verticle position with body side down. The climate conditions surrounding its storage place are what you really should be aware of.