A Mute Point...?

[4001_kenobie]

Hey all. I've found myself using the mute on my V63 a heap lately, and comparing it to a few beatles recordings with sir pauls muted 4001s (or RM1999..lets not go there). It seems sir pauls bass has a slighly longer sustain time when muted compared to the V63, so my question is....is the foam mute on the older basses less dense than the new basses? I used to own a late 70's 4001 when I was younger, and i dont remember the foam material on the mute being as 'rubbery' or as wide as on my V63. Has anyones mute pad softened from continual use, or should i start expreimenting with different foams to try and get a longer note??
cheers, jc

[woodyng]

this might seem simplistic,but maybe backing off the pressure to where the pad is just barely touching the strings ??

[4001_kenobie]

this might seem simplistic,but maybe backing off the pressure to where the pad is just barely touching the strings ??

Yep, have tried that Woody. I bring the mute bar up to the point where the rubber is touching the sting just enough for it not to buzz.

[jingle_jangle]

Maybe you should switch to a moot.

[johnallg]

I like your play on words, Julien. The mute pads get gummy with age, so maybe that is a factor on an older bass. Also remember Paul used very heavy compression in the studio.

[rickaddict]

They're definitely a different material. The old one was felt, the new one is some sort of foam rubber. Difference could be in the material, and also could be in the width of the mute itself. The new mute pads are a little more than twice as wide as the old ones. I'm no mute expert, but it makes sense to me that when more of the string is contacting the mute pad, the string would be more muted.

The difference could also (obviously) be in technique, string choice, amplification, etc.

[johnallg]

They're definitely a different material. The old one was felt, the new one is some sort of foam rubber. Difference could be in the material, and also could be in the width of the mute itself. The new mute pads are a little more than twice as wide as the old ones. I'm no mute expert, but it makes sense to me that when more of the string is contacting the mute pad, the string would be more muted.

The difference could also (obviously) be in technique, string choice, amplification, etc.

Felt?! I just learned another interesting fact I'd never seen posted here before! Thanks Jeff.

[espidog]

With Macca being an experienced player already by the time he got his first 4001, my bet is that he did what most people do by habit - i.e. palm muting.

[sloop_john_b]

I noticed the same thing, JC - I assumed that the mute material was just different on older basses. You can really hear this on "With A Little Help From My Friends" - it's got to be the mute, but the notes do ring out longer than they do with the current mute.

With Macca being an experienced player already by the time he got his first 4001, my bet is that he did what most people do by habit - i.e. palm muting.

Photographic evidence would suggest otherwise - his picking hand was always on the horseshoe.

[deaconblues]

I noticed the same thing, JC - I assumed that the mute material was just different on older basses. You can really hear this on "With A Little Help From My Friends" - it's got to be the mute, but the notes do ring out longer than they do with the current mute.

With Macca being an experienced player already by the time he got his first 4001, my bet is that he did what most people do by habit - i.e. palm muting.

Photographic evidence would suggest otherwise - his picking hand was always on the horseshoe.

I vote palm-muted...why would a guy like McCartney use a mechanical mute? Does he even know/care what a mute is? Photographic evidence is rare, and without pictures from the actual session, cannot be relied upon, IMO.

[sloop_john_b]

I vote palm-muted...why would a guy like McCartney use a mechanical mute? Does he even know/care what a mute is? Photographic evidence is rare, and without pictures from the actual session, cannot be relied upon, IMO.

Photos forthcoming. How the heck do you even palm mute on a Rick bass? It's practically impossible.

[sloop_john_b]

Okay, so I don't think I'm going to scan/post them, but "Recording The Beatles" has two great pictures of Paul playing his 4001s during the "With A Little Help From My Friends" bass overdub session. His picking (left) hand is resting on the horseshoe, as it nearly always was when he was playing either the 4001s or the Fender Jazz.

With the horseshoe pickup on and with the mute cavity still intact, you pretty much can't (cleanly) palm-mute on a 4001. There's just not enough room between the tailpiece and the horseshoe to do it.

[jdogric12]

These "rock gods" are not the virtuosos many of you make them out to be. Paul was hardly an 'experienced' player (in the sense it was used above) in the 60's. I mean, a lot of these guys don't even read sheet music. I would not be surprised in the slightest if it was the mechanical mute.

[jdogric12]

Okay, so I don't think I'm going to scan/post them, but "Recording The Beatles" has two great pictures of Paul playing his 4001s during the "With A Little Help From My Friends" bass overdub session. His picking (left) hand is resting on the horseshoe, as it nearly always was when he was playing either the 4001s or the Fender Jazz.

With the horseshoe pickup on and with the mute cavity still intact, you pretty much can't (cleanly) palm-mute on a 4001. There's just not enough room between the tailpiece and the horseshoe to do it.

You're right not to scan/post, but how about a page number(s)? Thanks JB!

[deaconblues]

These "rock gods" are not the virtuosos many of you make them out to be. Paul was hardly an 'experienced' player (in the sense it was used above) in the 60's. I mean, a lot of these guys don't even read sheet music. I would not be surprised in the slightest if it was the mechanical mute.

That's why I have my doubts regarding his use of the mechanical mute...the man doesn't even know what kind of strings he uses!

At any rate, I'm sure replacing the pads with felt will improve the sound considerably.