1979 4001 Tuners Question

[MichaelStewart]

My 1979 4001's tuners are somewhat corroded, and I would like to change them. They do not have a brand name promenantly showing, so I don't know actually what they are.

Does anyone here know what brand and model of tuners that would have come stock with this bass?

Has anyone tried the hipshot 27:1 ratio tuners that would not require any modification? Are they as good as hipshot advertises?

Or is there a preference here as to what brand/model of replacement tuners are great for 4001s in general?

Thanks!

[rickaddict]

I don't know what brand the nickel-plated reverse tuners are that came on your '79 Rick. People call them Klusons or Kluson-type tuners. Kluson isn't around any more from what I understand, but I'm not sure when they shut down.

I think the new Rick Schallers would fit and I think a few here have done the swap but I'm not sure. I do know that the Rick Schallers are excellent tuners.

FWIW, I have 5 or 6 Rick basses with the same tuners as your '79. They're good tuners, and it might be less of a hassle to clean them up. It'll take a few hours. Remove the tuners, pull the posts, gears, screws and washers off and polish them with Brasso. Wash them up, dry them off, then put a drop of oil between the gear and the plate and re-assemble. Its a PIA, but mine have turned out well and kept the vintage look of the bass.

Replacing tuners can become more of a headache than you expect sometimes. Drilling out post holes can weaken the headstock. Different length posts can put your strings higher off the headstock and lead to string rattles in the nut. Different bushings (ferrules) might not fit in existing post holes, etc.

[johnallg]

Mr. Rath usually has used Rick Schaller tuners on hand, you might try IM'ing him if thinking on changing to those.

[bails]

Original Kluson brand Klusons stopped being used in the very early 1980's. The current made Klusons are not by the same company, just the owners of the name.

P.S. In line with Jeff's suggestions for clean up, I always start by putting my metal parts in the dishwasher first. Sometimes, that's the only cleaning required.

[rictified]

They should be the reverse tuners which do get dull but are very cool IMHO. I like them much better than the later tuners especially the new ones, they turn too slow. You can find revers Ric tuners on ebay here and there.

[rictified]

FWIW, I have 5 or 6 Rick basses with the same tuners as your '79. They're good tuners, and it might be less of a hassle to clean them up. It'll take a few hours. Remove the tuners, pull the posts, gears, screws and washers off and polish them with Brasso. Wash them up, dry them off, then put a drop of oil between the gear and the plate and re-assemble. Its a PIA, but mine have turned out well and kept the vintage look of the bass.

Replacing tuners can become more of a headache than you expect sometimes. Drilling out post holes can weaken the headstock. Different length posts can put your strings higher off the headstock and lead to string rattles in the nut. Different bushings (ferrules) might not fit in existing post holes, etc.

Do they come out shiny with the Brasso Jeff?
I think changing to different tuners on a Ric is sacrilege, part of what's really cool about later 70's and early 80's 4001's and 4003's are the reverse tuners.

[rickaddict]

Do they come out shiny with the Brasso Jeff?
I think changing to different tuners on a Ric is sacrilege, part of what's really cool about later 70's and early 80's 4001's and 4003's are the reverse tuners.

Yes. It is a PIA though! You definitely have to be a warped, Rick-addicted obsessive freak to do it. I've done it to a few of mine over the kitchen sink. Completely disassemble and work on each little part, one at a time. I've had some pretty dull and greenish looking tuners turn out very nice. Sometimes some of the parts won't come out perfect, but they always have looked better IMO.

I too, like the look of those old nickel-plated reverse tuners and they work well enough... but IMO the new Schallers are a better design and work more smoothly. I wouldn't swap any of mine, but problems I have with the old ones are: 1) The tighter you sock down the large post screw, the more friction there is to turn the gear; if you leave the screws loose so they'll turn easy, then the screw will vibrate out. I've never lost one of the post screws, but from looking at Rick basses on Ebay, I see a lot of other people have. The Schallers aren't designed the same. You can sock down that post screw as tight as you want on the new Schallers and it doesn't affect how the tuner spins. 2) Sometimes the shaft isn't perfectly straight (spinning the tuner feels like rolling a bent pool cue on a table) so that as you spin the tuner it alternates between a lot of resistance and turning easily. The Schaller tuner shafts are much more of a precision made thing. I've never had this problem with the Schallers. 3) Sometimes the old reverse tuners are very hard to turn in general. I don't know if the black plastic bushings swell up or what, but I have a couple basses where one of the four tuners is much harder to turn than the other three. This doesn't happen with the new Schallers. I think the chrome bushings on the Schallers hold up much better than the old black plastic bushings over time, they look better, they're more consistent, and have less friction. 4) The Shallers are also easier to clean-up as the shaft can be completely removed, cleaned and lubed, and 5) The chrome plating on the Schallers holds up much better than the nickel and doesn't need to be cleaned as often.

The old nickel tuners have a cool vintage vibe, but IMO the Schallers are the superior tuner.

I like the open-backed Schallers more than the closed-backed M4 tuners also. The open-backed tuners don't spin as fast as the M4's. With the M4's I'm constantly tuning up to pitch, accidentally going too far, and having to start over. That doesn't happen nearly as often (for me) with the open backed Schallers.

Who liked my little essay? Can you tell I'm bored today? Is anybody still reading?

Get back to work!

[rickenbrother]

I'm like you Jeff. I also take hardware like tuners apart to clean them and get old ones looking and functioning better and also to keep new ones looking new and functioning well.

I like the Schaller open back ones best also, just because I kike the look of the keys and the open gear in the back.
I have a set of the tuners that work in reverse that I tool off my 4001S. I replaced them with the new Schallers. I never liked those reverse tuners.

[jps]

I'm reading!

Now, get back to your vacation!

[pineder]

I put a set of the Hipshot tuners on my Azureglo, I actually like them. The quality is there and the 27:1 ratio really makes a difference. Plus they are an exact replacement, which means no modifications.

[johnallg]

Jeff and Joey - I used a product called Wenol to polish my nickel-plated machines. Did a wonderful job and it was really easy to use with quick results. I had searched the forum for ways to do this, and came across a thread from over 5 years ago and it listed Mothers, Wenol, and another product I can't remember, but it was similar to Wenol. I knew I had Mothers, and when I looked I had also bought a tube of Wenol at a car show here. Wenol got the best comments in the thread I had found, so I tried it on the reverse tuners on my '75 4001 and they really cleaned up nice and shiny, easily. You might want to try it.

http://www.wenol.com/id21.htm
http://www.properautocare.com/y-335.htm ... swodfUHuTw

Oh, and I guess I qualify Jeff; I took them off the bass and completely apart.