Bridge High gain compared to Ressuie Horse shoe questions?

[fourstringfrank]

Hi guy´s and girls of course...Do you think its a big difference in sound between the reissue horse shoe pic up compared to a regular bridge high gain one...From what I´ve heard from some folks is the following:The reissue horse shoe is just there for cosmetic reasons,the horse shoes in metal has nothing to do whit the sound/function etc nowadays as it had back in the old days but not now...if thats the case then the major difference soundwise between the pic ups on a 4003 compared to a 4001c64 should be the toaster in the neck position...that one makes the bass sounds fuller and deeper than the neck high gain one.
Grateful for any anwers here.
Best Dan.

[whojamfan]

I have a 2007 4003 that I put a toaster in the neck. This, combined with the push/pull pot that throws a .0047 cap on the bridge(like old 4001s had)it's a very versatile bass, really the best of both worlds IMHO. I don't know anything tone wise about the reissue horse shoes as they are not offered aftermarket from Ric.

[johnallg]

A toaster will give more articulation over the neck high gain, but will sit further from the strings due to the high gain having the nail heads closer to the strings.

As to the RIHS vs High Gain in the bridge, my feelings on this is again more articulation with the RIHS over a harsher? sound from the HG. Hard to describe, but in both cases (neck and bridge) you are talking the plastic-type under coil bar magnets vs the alnico5 rod pole pieces. I have basses both ways, and am happy with both, but tend towards the ones with the alnico5s in them. MHO

[VRICKY63]

I had a V63 . Tried the HS and new adjustable pole high gain . I thought the tone was very similar between them with an edge going to the HS for punch . Really very close , the difference could be as simple as how they are set up as far as string height .

[chefothefuture]

The HS in my v63 sounds more lively, has a bit more rash/grind in the top end.
The HG in a 4003 I had was a little tighter. Not clearer but it had a punch to it...

[just_bassics]

Always an interesting subject! I have three Ric basses, a 4003 BBR, '98 V63 and '82 4001S. I removed the HG's from the '82 and replaced them with a RIHS and toaster. My analysis: The 4003 is the loudest and the pickups are closer in overall output than the V or the S. The V HS is warm and mellow, while the RIHS on the S is very clean, bright, deep, like low strings on a grand piano sound. I prefer the S sound best. Tone is always subjective in description, so the best I can offer is that the 4003 with HG is "Full", the V63 is "Warm" and the 4001S is "Bright". One of the things I love most about Ric basses is how all three can sound different, yet all three clearly sound like Rics. I'm sure most of you know what I mean by that and it's the reason that RAS can strike at any time

I saved the following response from John Hall a few years ago regarding this very subject. Here is the question and his response. I believe it is from this forum...

John Hall, RIC CEE post.

Posted: 6/5/2006 8:16:00 AM

quote: Apparently, these shoes serve as much purpose as the plastic cover I took off my '74 4001, years ago.

"Actually, you're very much mistaken. The horseshoe repro works just like the original, the only difference being that the source of magnetism is relocated.

In the old days, the horseshoe itself was magnetized; unfortunately over time it discharged and the output level decreased drastically. The modern unit overcomes this by using separate Alnico magnets to energize the horseshoe, which will retain their characteristics pretty much for their life.

A standard 4003 pickup has a magnet below the coil and the string motion is sensed only in one dimension, i.e. back and forth. However, the strings move in a helical motion and the horseshoe, since it surrounds the string, allows it to pick up string motion in all axes. It's a major difference and the whole point of the horseshoe."

[just_bassics]

Oh, and Welcome, Dan!

[rickaddict]

I saved the following response from John Hall a few years ago regarding this very subject. Here is the question and his response. I believe it is from this forum...

John Hall, RIC CEE post.

Posted: 6/5/2006 8:16:00 AM

quote: Apparently, these shoes serve as much purpose as the plastic cover I took off my '74 4001, years ago.

"Actually, you're very much mistaken. The horseshoe repro works just like the original, the only difference being that the source of magnetism is relocated.

In the old days, the horseshoe itself was magnetized; unfortunately over time it discharged and the output level decreased drastically. The modern unit overcomes this by using separate Alnico magnets to energize the horseshoe, which will retain their characteristics pretty much for their life.

A standard 4003 pickup has a magnet below the coil and the string motion is sensed only in one dimension, i.e. back and forth. However, the strings move in a helical motion and the horseshoe, since it surrounds the string, allows it to pick up string motion in all axes. It's a major difference and the whole point of the horseshoe."

Well...Hmmm...Its not that I don't believe JH, but my C64S sounds frikken' fabulous with the shoes off just as it did with the shoes on. And I play mostly on the bridge pickup, and sometimes solo'd on the bridge pickup.



The only differences I notice are that now I have full access to my strings and my bass is lighter and better looking.

[rickaddict]

Welcome Dan. You'll find very good information on this forum, and I see that you already have in this thread.

One thing that you have to keep in mind is that the Rick 4003 has gone through quite a few changes to affect its tone since its introduction in 1980. Likewise, a re-issue horseshoe from an early 4001V63 will sound different than a re-issue horseshoe from a 4001C64.

The mid 80's 4003's that I have sound clear as a bell, full, and loud. Then in 1990 or so RIC changed the tone pots from 500K ohm to 250K ohm. The 90's 4003's don't have as much high end. The pickups got hotter too, so they can sound a bit more growly/distorted. The current 4003 has 330K ohm tone pots, so it's got a little more high end than a 90's 4003, but the pickups are still hot.

To my ears, the current 4003 sounds a little less clear than the current 4001C64.

[fourstringfrank]

Thanks guys for all your replys here and welcomes etc...very nice thread indeed....its cool whit all the RIC knowledge here...like it a lot.
RIC ON...
Dan.

[jwr2]

To my ears the re-issue horseshoe and the modern high gaon sound a lot alike ... the differences will be subtle ....

[cheyenne]

I had a V63 with a very "hot" horseshoe. It had alot more output than any hi-gain equipped 4003 that I had at the time. Myself, I prefer the more balanced sound of modern hi-gains, but I just love the classic look of a toaster and horseshoe.

[johnallg]

I had a V63 with a very "hot" horseshoe. It had alot more output than any hi-gain equipped 4003 that I had at the time. Myself, I prefer the more balanced sound of modern hi-gains, but I just love the classic look of a toaster and horseshoe.

My 1993 V63 has a toaster and HS that are both 12k. Nice balance. Deeper/darker too. To me today's high gains sound more middy and growly, but at the same time it is harder for me to discern pitches with them on the E string at or below G#. Toasters (7.4k) have a lot more clarity.

I run Ampeg amps, which may be adding to these impressions.

[Wiker]

I’m one of those poor sods paying a stupid amount of money to get my hands on a RI horse shoe.

It look GREAT, but.. In my ears that RIHS (11K) sounded not so fare from the neck toaster (7.4K), only a little brighter due to it’s position (and of course much hotter output). Now I’ve put my 8K bridge high gain back as I find it has more of a different character to the neck toaster than the RIHS – 8K high gain sounds “sharper” or something.

Now I wonder, what if I unwind that RIHS to around 8-9K? It will get brighter right? But still, the construction with alnico pole magnets is similar to the toaster, so..
I know some of you have unwound RIHS. What’s your experience?


BTW, a rather strange phenomenon occurred. Playing for a while I noticed the E string was very dead. The E-string sounded for only 1-2 seconds and died off. I thought “now I’ve got that dead E / dead spot syndrome” I’ve read about. However, the muting of the E-string sounded strange, not like a normal lack of sustain. I finally out that when I rested my hand on the shoe of the RIHS while playing then the E-string was dead, not resting my hand it was normal. And this was while playing neck toaster only, not the HS. Picked up the bass later that evening the phenomena was gone and didn’t return. Very very strange Maybe something to do with the ach cloud for Eyjafjallajökull

[gearhed289]

I've found the new, adjustable pole high gain on my 4003S to be VERY similar in sound to the RIHS on my CS. I'm very happy with it. Plus you have the added benefits of being able to dial in a more balanced sound across all four strings with the adjustable poles, and there aren't any horseshoes in the way. Yeah, the shoes LOOK awesome!