String buzz & high action

[JohnnyMarrFan]

Hello all,

I've just bought a 620 Jetglo, it seemed okay in the shop but when I got it home I noticed it has considerable fret buzz on the 3 bass strings even with the bridge at maximum height. Maybe it just needs setting up? The neck looks pretty straight by eye but it I haven't tested using a straight edge.

Another thing that bothers me is the area around the nut is very poorly cut, I'm talking about the slot on the headstock where the nut sits. The nut has gaps around all sides...the pickguard is not straight (it overlaps the bridge pickup but has a big gap between next to the neck pickup) and to be honest I'm very disheartened, I've heard people talking about the legendary Ric quality and John Hall mentioning that Ric do not produce B stock guitars. I don't know if I'm being too picky (I don't think so) but I bought a £200 Chinese- built Squier and everything was great on it. There is no chance of a refund from the shop so I don't know what to do really, I can forgive the pickguard wonky-ness if I can get ri of the frett buzz and get the action lower.

Suggestions please?

[JohnnyMarrFan]

My guitar was new and I got it for a good price so I'll try and get it set up nicely but if it doesn't work out I can always sell it and probably get my money back. This was second choice to a 360 anyhow.
I think I'm going to take the nut out since it isn't straight and hangs over the neck at one side, I'm going to try some 10's or 11' s on it tomorrow, I think the thicker strings will help when fretting and might reduce buzz. I'm sure it had 8 or 9's on when I got it, which were next to unplayable for me. If I can get it sorted out I'll be happy but I'd think twice about buying another Ric, I understand they are being shipped all over the world and hence might need setting up when they arrive but this seems like a lot of work for a 'prestige' instrument.

[grazioso]

nut properly placed and strings 10-42 will likely cure the problem. and yes they make guitars on friday afternoons too

[JohnnyMarrFan]

I've changed the strings, checked the bridge assembly and set that up to a decent height and there is still serious buzzing. I've contacted the UK distributor of Rickenbacker in the hope that they can help me. The nut is lying over the bass side only by maybe 1/4 to 1/2mm so I don't think it would make that much difference, certainly not enough to buzz like a hive of bees. I think I'd feel a lot better about it if J.H. came out and said 'yes, we do on occasion let bad ones escape' but I've read posts on the official Rickenbacker forum (where I've been applying to join for months without success) where he states it's just bad setup that causes fret buzz.

One thing I'm thinking about, my neck is slightly bowed so there is a gap under the middle frets, I thought buzz would only happen if the neck was bowed the opposite way and the strings were fretting out? I'm going to adjust it tomorrow but I'm wondering if it might make it worse? I could try and bow it even further so that it bows even further?

[grazioso]

well from what i read - it needs to go to someone who knows what they are doing - it needs complete setup and maybe new nut. and of course bow can cause buzzing as well as hump does.

[jingle_jangle]

One question:

Can you hear the buzz both unplugged and plugged-in? If only unplugged,it's merely string choice. A swap to genuine Rick strings would be a good place to re-start in this case.

[JohnnyMarrFan]

Yes, it is only when unplugged but noticeable on most frets. I was going to put Pyramid flatwounds flatwounds on...I don't really want to change the strings again and find out it still isn't set up properly and have to remove the strings.

I assumed the guitar had arrived with Rickenbacker strings on it, and they were terrible so I changed them. Do you think I should put some Pyramids on and then adjust the truss rod thereafter?

[doctorwho]

I am not a luthier, but here is a question: is the buzzing due to the frets or the bridge? From your previous post, it seems that it's from the strings bottoming out on the frets. If this is the case, as stated above, a bow could also cause high frets at the upper fretboard, so starting with a perfectly flat fretboard (which is what RIC recommends - check the manual) is essential for tracking down the problem and remedying it.

[JohnnyMarrFan]

Yeah the buzz is definitely from the frets. When fretting chords on the first and second frets there is a lot of rattle coming from the next two frets. I just played with a capo on the third fret and there was very little rattle, possibly because of the bow in the neck but I'm not really sure what this means. I also just cranked it and played on clean setting and could hear the buzz, it isn't nearly as bad though.

I'll adjust my truss rod tool at work tomorrow and straighten the neck and then report back with my results.

One question: What is the 360/6 neck like compared with the 620? thickness and width etc.. ?

[BlueAngel]

Sadly - and this doesn't give me any pleasure to say so - Rickenbacker's legendary quality control is just that - a legend. Or in other words, a myth.

Part of it is the reliance on hand-crafting - also contrary to popular myth, this does NOT guarantee perfection, quite the opposite. I have no idea where this concept comes from, because machine tooling is flat out more accurate and consistent, and it amazes me how people (not just musicians, but they seem especially prone to it) continue to believe that making something by hand is inherently better. Humans get tired, lose concentration, feel pressured by having to meet deadlines, etc... and that's even if they could work to the same kind of tolerances in the first place, which they can't.

Even given that, some of the lapses I've seen from RIC are quite surprising, because they should have been easy to spot and correct during production (like nuts not fitted properly because there is finish on the nut slot that should have been masked in the first place, and if missed should definitely have been removed before fitting the nut - I saw this recently on a 4003 and it sounds like the original poster here has the same issue). Others are simply down to carelessness (like pickups and pickguards not quite straight - very common and not only recently) and although they don't affect the playability, just aren't really good enough on a top-flight instrument - and should be easy to avoid if proper drilling jigs or CNC tools were used, which they clearly aren't or this wouldn't happen.

I know that with a huge backlog like RIC has it must be difficult to slow down production even slightly to more thoroughly eliminate these sorts of problems, and maybe that's part of it - but denying they exist at all (as the attitude over on the official RIC forum and to an extent here often seems to be) doesn't help anyone, certainly not the owner with a real issue and maybe not even the company.

I'm NOT bashing the company for the sake of it - I love the instruments and respect the very independent path Mr. Hall has chosen to go down - I just wish they were as perfect and consistent as they're so often claimed to be. For what it's worth I can think of at least one manufacturer - that produces more instruments and uses more automation as well - which achieves significantly higher quality consistency in my experience (I'm a professional guitar repairer by the way). There is no reason that all of the problems like this that I've come across couldn't have been - and SHOULD have been - caught at final inspection at the factory and fixed, even if they weren't corrected earlier... since I fixed them afterwards anyway.

As to the original poster's guitar... it's possible the fret buzz on the bass strings could be caused by mis-adjustment of the neck, especially considering the nut problem. On another 4003 I worked on recently, the nut was cut so badly that the G string was buzzing on the 1st fret, and the truss rod on the treble side had been left slack to try to avoid this. (The nut was cut with the underside edge at such an angle that while the G was too low, the E was actually far too high - and yes, I'm sure it left the factory like that.) With the bass side rod tightened normally, this of course produced a twist in the neck and rattling on the bass side in the low positions. If it's not that and the neck has a slight hump in it near the third fret, a fret dress will probably cure it without needing to refret it and plane the fingerboard - which is a huge job, especially as the board would need to be refinished.

The pickguard misalignment (check that it isn't the pickups that are off as well, by the way) should be easy to fix by filling the existing screw holes with fine hardwood dowel and redrilling in the correct place - you won't see it once done. I've had to do quite a few of these... (Including the bridge pickup on that 381 in my signature, for what it's worth.)


Flame suit now on .

Also, that other manufacturer I mentioned isn't totally immune to QC problems either - NO mass producer is, or probably even any small maker either.

[JohnnyMarrFan]

This is ridiculous. As I mentioned before, My Chinese Squier never had any quality issues whatsoever. I don't expect to have to fix a £200 guitar which has come straight from the factory, to think that repairs may be needed on this, a £1000 guitar leaves me speechless. I'm tempted to just get the fret buzz fixed and sell it on...and then buy 5 Squier models with the money If I didn't laugh, I'd cry.

P.S. The pickups are in the correct place, the strings line up perfectly. I did, however, have to polish the bottom of the bridge saddles as they had been left rough and would not slide when the screws were turned.

That pic in my sig, it's the guitar I had ordered and was supposed to get but I grew impatient of waiting and bought the 620 because it was in stock. Maybe it's fate because I committed a sin

[JohnnyMarrFan]

Yeah, you're right. There are probably 1000's of amazing Rickenbackers to every ****** one, I was just unlucky I suppose. Maybe I was holding the brand in legendary esteem because I hadn't played one before and only heard about the Ric myths of amazing workmanship, so I might have set my standards too high.

Speaking hypothetically (although seriously considering) what could I sell this on for? I would have the problems ironed out and then sell it on Ebay as being brand new I think. does anyone know the going rate in the UK?

I don't think I'm put off from buying another Ric, I'm still after the legendary 360 Blue Burst that I planned on getting all along, maybe I could arrange a trade with a guitar shop?

[jingle_jangle]

Yes, it is only when unplugged but noticeable on most frets. I was going to put Pyramid flatwounds flatwounds on...I don't really want to change the strings again and find out it still isn't set up properly and have to remove the strings.

I assumed the guitar had arrived with Rickenbacker strings on it, and they were terrible so I changed them. Do you think I should put some Pyramids on and then adjust the truss rod thereafter?

Do you wonder, Steven, why I asked that very pointed question?

It's because string buzzes when played unplugged are not rare where Ricks are concerned, at least in the frets department. String buzzes coming from the bridge can be fixed by fettling the bridgework. Sometimes a careful listen with a piece of aquarium tubing inserted into one's ear and directed at various possible sources, will pinpoint a buzz and from then on it's a matter of tweaking a screw or filing a saddle or...

The faint string buzzes which are fret-related and which cannot be heard when the instrument is amplified, are the province of the Rick fretwork, and are part and parcel of the guitar's quirky charm. Look closely at any fret, even on a factory-new Rick. You'll see that the top is flat, not crowned. This is a product of the way Rick has done their fretboards--varnished--since the late 1950s.

It is very difficult to crown a fret in the traditional way--which gives (theoretically, anyway) one point of contact between string and fret, so buzzing cannot occur--on a varnished fretboard with the typical concave meniscus of varnish creeping up the sides of the frets. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meniscus) So, Rickenbackers have frets that are flatter on top than is usual, and this type of fret will tend to buzz when the guitar is played unplugged, but the buzz will not be in evidence once the instrument is plugged in.

I would say, don't worry about it. And stay away from the new Pyramids. If you would like to try flatties, use T-Is. New Pyramids don't sound like the old ones, anyway, and have quite high tension to boot. I have a '67 425 strung with NOS vintage Pyramids, and they sound nothing like my new 660 did, strung with new Pyramids, and feel much better too. I think the old ones have a higher nickel content and lower tension. The 660 is now back on a Rick diet.

[jingle_jangle]

should be easy to avoid if proper drilling jigs or CNC tools were used, which they clearly aren't or this wouldn't happen.

I know that with a huge backlog like RIC has it must be difficult to slow down production even slightly to more thoroughly eliminate these sorts of problems, and maybe that's part of it - but denying they exist at all (as the attitude over on the official RIC forum and to an extent here often seems to be) doesn't help anyone, certainly not the owner with a real issue and maybe not even the company.

Two misconceptions about Ricks...of course they use "proper drilling jigs", and their body, neck, and fretboard work are all CNC, with superb programming and through-put, done on American-made HAAS CNC machines of very recent vintage (The old Reichenbacher has finally been retired).

The Forum on the RIC corporate site is an informational and comraderie locus. As has been said many times before, both here and there, issues of QC on new instruments should be directed to RIC's customer service department and not aired in a public forum. Many of these issues are matters of consumer preconceptions or perceptions, and customer service are there to help you to get satisfaction and the most from your guitar or bass.

[dr_bob]

I both agree and disagree with Paul's statement that issues of QC should not be aired in a public forum.

I think that both sides of the customer/manufacturer equation have responsibilities to one another. The manufacturer obviously owes its customers a quality product -- at least relative to cost. In regard to the customer, perhaps he/she owes the manufacturer an opportunity to first rectify any manufacturing errors or assembly problems before airing issues in a public forum. I also think that if issues remain unresolved by the manufacturer then the customer has every right to air those issues in a public way. (I had an Audi back in the day of the accelerator problems.) From my experience and from what I've read on this forum, RIC (unlike Audi back then) attempts to resolve the issues of its customers and, therefore, should be accorded the opportunity to resolve any manufacturing errors or problems for which it may be responsible.

There is one drawback, however, to never airing any problems (fixed or not) in a public way. No one ever knows that others have experienced the same or similar issues so that we, the customers, all think that any problem we have must be an anomaly. So discussions of this sort can help customers make informed choices. The subtitle of this forum is, after all, "All Things Rickenbacker" not "All Good Things Rickenbacker." These discussions should be done, however, in ways that are descriptive and respectful, and not personal or evaluative. For what it's worth, I thought Steven in his opening post did a good job of being descriptive and respectful. Also, for what it's worth, I learned from Paul in this thread that the fret buzzing I hear when playing my Rick unplugged is to be expected to a certain degree. Thanks, I thought it was my playing that was at fault.