Dawning Realisation...

[sloop_john_b]

I have no problem playing it on a 4003, and can nail the tone with flatwounds.

Aye, there's the rub (quite literally). You need flats or a Fender for that one. It's playable on a 4003 with rounds, but it's not Zeppelin. For a bit of variety, I use a pick near the bridge and pretend Chris Squire joined Led Zep (shudder).

Hah! Believe it or not, John Paul Jones claims he never used flatwounds in Zeppelin.

Now try and get the "Dazed & Confused" or "Lemon Song" tone with a Jazz/roundwounds. Ain't happenin'.

[paologregorio]

Alembic is one of my favorite targets....They remind me of those dreadful, ultra-shiny things made out of sectioned wood tree stumps, like table tops and wall clocks.

And I thought I was the only one who drew that comparison.

[Starless]

Hah! Believe it or not, John Paul Jones claims he never used flatwounds in Zeppelin.

And I've got rounds on my Fender, BUT there's obviously rounds and rounds. The Ric factory rounds rip your fingers to shreds while they're doing their buzz-saw impersonations. The rounds that came with my P-bass are much more tightly packed together (smaller diameter windings) and so generally a smoother ride. Not as smooth as flats, but much more playable than the Ric strings.

I wonder what they could be, as I will have to replace them one day......

[squirefan01]

Wow, great thread. It took me awhile to discover it and I am kind of surprised it's lasted in this section without being moved elsewhere.

I have been thinking alot about this topic lately, as I put my last 4003 up for sale (well I've only had 2 so it's not like the end of an era or anything). I will be Rick-less soon and this Rick-driven chapter of my bass-playing existence will be over (for now...who knows what the future will bring). I'll probably even sell my expensively framed RIC Squire poster to make wall space for other things. I couldn't have imagined that a few years ago.

My 4003 ownership period was very exciting at first as I got back into playing the bass, being glad that I could afford such an instrument finally (after 40 years). I thought that was all there could be, but the more I played and especially the more I played with others, the less the 4003 did it for me in the style that I play (finger style, jazz improv, flatwounds or softer nickel rounds). When I got my Alembic Essence over a year ago now, I became infatuated with that (love the look but playability was incredible) and the 4003 got put away. Months went by and all I played with the band was the Alembic and then the Ibanez 5-string I picked up for certain songs. I tried going back to the 4003 recently in the basement and with the band but it just lasted a few weeks then it was back to the Alembic. I don't think I can say I am still infatuated with the new instrument after all of this time, and the tones I can get out of the Alembic are beautiful.

Now I just bought my fretless Lakland, which again I may be infatuated with but it sounds stunning. That's what I am giving up the 4003 for. I now have 2 really well built basses with high quality components and excellent feel that hopefully will keep me going for a long time (well, the Alembic & Lakland will be the primary players but there are others like my 80's Jap P-bass that I love).

I am certainly not as experienced a player as many of you (who I greatly respect), but I just feel like I am getting so much more out of other basses besides the 4003 from a tonal point of view. The noisiness of the 4003 electronics and pickups is what got to me after awhile. Maybe I could suppress that with different technique, but I don't have to worry about it with the other basses. My bass guru who is the most respected electric bassist for any style of music on the Cape has been around a long time and has done his share of recording and he feels the same way, so I know it's not really just my lack of technique.

I personally think that the beauty of the instrument itself as a piece of art is a whole other conversation. It cannot be denied that RIC has some beautiful curves in its designs but playing the instrument is what it's all about for me.

I know others have hung around here without any Ricks and I intend to do the same, as I have learned so much from you all over the time I have been here. I am excited to move on though in my playing though and for now the Ricks won't be a part of that.

Thanks for keeping this thread open Peter!

[johnallg]

That's one health looking Mapleglo!

Ehhh, too high maintenance!

[johnallg]

Does anyone else see the irony of a "fretless Precision bass"?

Irony or outright humor?! But then the precision of the playing rests with the player playing the playee with precision on his Precision!

[ben_brown]

Fenders smell funny!

My right rear fender smelled pretty bad @ RIO

[Starless]

I will be Rick-less soon and this Rick-driven chapter of my bass-playing existence will be over

That was a very interesting read and I think a very good reason why this thread has stayed where it is. It is first and foremost a discussion about Rickenbackers, albeit possibly falling out of love a bit with them and opening the eyes and ears to other possibilities.

I am pretty sure my C64 will remain (but the 4003 has to go) as, unless I can find another bass that has the same neck profile up around the 12th, is half the weight and still produces that toaster tone, it will be the best machine I can own for my purposes. But that's not all, there is obviously the Macca connection (for some it's Chris Squire, Geddy Lee etc) and that equates to sentimental value which at the very least will see the C64 packed away and left in the attic for the kids to fight over after the funeral.

This whole thing about losing the shine a bit when it comes to Rics is nothing new. Looking back, it seems that various artists have been at one time Ric players, but for whatever reason, settle on something else - Roger Waters, John Entwhistle, Macca himself, even John and George were no longer seen with their 6 and 12 stringers much after '65.

People change, times change (but a Fender is forever......;)Sorry, couldn't resist.

[wints]

Greg's point about the aesthetic being secondary to sound/playability is a very valid point, and to the serious amongst us, the valid point.

I'm not a great lover of the way Alembic basses look, but in terms of sound there's no comparison. A Ric looks better to most eyes, (in most instances, but certainly not all...), but suffers from a functional standpoint, especially with the bridge and to a lesser degree, the electronics.

Unless one is striving for a specific look/image, (and of course, most are) the majority of bassists would take an Alembic. Like the pre 73 hand built Mercedes, nothing is made better, and as mentioned earlier, a used Alembic is simply the best value for $$$ on the market.

A 60's custom Fender J or P always looks fabulous to me, and they generally sound great too. That design is timeless, and with the right colours, looks even more impressive. A 60's Ric in FG with sparklies is the same, but simply different. If you are lucky you get to own both. I recently played a pre EB Stingray FL and it was killer. I'm going to get one, and when I finally find an Alembic that I truly love the feel of, I'll have one of them too.

It's all good....

[ben_brown]

I have no problem playing it on a 4003, and can nail the tone with flatwounds.

Aye, there's the rub (quite literally). You need flats or a Fender for that one. It's playable on a 4003 with rounds, but it's not Zeppelin.

No offense to anyone but....you don't need flats or rounds to play any particular song to make it sound right. It's all technique no matter what you play.

[atomic_punk]

Great thread!
I've been kinda perusing it lately and noticing PEOPLE BEING HONEST. I like that.
And not bashing each other for what they like and don't like.

Firstly, I am going to throw myself into the "I Like Alembics" camp.
I saw a Series 2 5-string the other day at Guitar Center and said, that's it. That's what I want. until I realized they wanted $25K for it, after which I just stared lovingly into the glass case they had it in.

Like my signature says, I've seen a million basses. Well, maybe not a MILLION, but I have had a long journey thru bassdom, starting out on a Fender Telecaster bass, then a '67 Gibson EB-3, Ibanez Destroyer, Jazz, Precision, Hamers, Ricks, Epiphone, Gibson Thunderbird, Ibanez again, Hamers again, Rics again, etc. etc. now to Ernie Ball. It's like a new girlfriend at first. Everything is new and different and you love the eccentricities of it, then after a while you see something new and shiny and that E string sounds a little better and the neck fits your hand better, and you play that one for a while.

I think every one of us has a sound in their head that says, "This is what I sound like.THIS is MY sound." The problem for me is that sound is always changing in my head.

[johnallg]

Steve, buy an anchor, and the next time you get a bass that "does it for you" (like the Bongo), tie the rope to your belt and throw it overboard!

[DavidSchwab]

Hah! Believe it or not, John Paul Jones claims he never used flatwounds in Zeppelin.

Now try and get the "Dazed & Confused" or "Lemon Song" tone with a Jazz/roundwounds. Ain't happenin'.

Wasn't he playing the Gibson EB-1 then? I know Rotosound Swingbass came out in '66, and they recorded that in '69, so maybe, but he sure sounded like he was using flats to me. Probably was the Acoustic 361 W-bin making that tone.

Oh, and I like Alembics too... or at least I used to. Then I made my own take on that style of bass which I like a lot better. But Alembics were cool back in the day.

My bass:

[rickfan63]

John Paul Jones says he never used flats with Zep . His memory must be getting bad with age. I used to have a 1976 issue of Guitar Player magazine with a JPJ interview. He said there, that flats was all he used until he started playing his Alembic. Rotosound flats specifically too.

[cassius987]

Fender does not equal RIC does not equal Fender. Enjoy them both if you will.

I own a 4003, a 4003FL, and a Fender Jazz. I agree that Japanese Fenders are great. Now, selling a 4001C64 because you really like your fretless P Bass? That makes absolutely no sense to me. That's like saying, "I just bought this great hammer so I'm going to go sell my chainsaw." Have fun.