kay rick-a-like

[kiramdear]

If I understand it, Fender, Gibson and others passed up the opportunity to protect their rights. RIC however has taken robust efforts to protect their name and their property and ensure its value, for themselves and their customers. Some people say what they will, but the strategy works to make each Rickenbacker one of the best, most collectible guitars out there. Timmy's buddy has a story from the dark side of the force, too bad. I hope he didn't pay top dollar/pound.
What I find equally if not more disturbing are the Rickenhackers, EBay butchers chopping up ricks for profit. They take advantage of the fact that genuine replacement parts are difficult to find and expensive.

[antipodean]

A big issue for Fender and Gibson was that the Japanese copies were as good as (or much better than) the "real thing" for an appreciable discount. Late '70s/early 80sTokai LP copies sell for more than the real thing from the same period. Fujigen Gakki (home of Greco and Ibanez), a major offender, eventually took up the mantle of Fender Japan (beating Tokai to the punch), as well as building guitars for Gibson under the Orville banner, such was their build quality. In addition to co-opting, the big two threatened the "rogue" Japanese makers with lawsuits in the early '80s, and this lead to minor changes in design for their export models for the bigger Japanese firms so their product would pass muster, and to the closing down of some smaller players.

However, there would appear to be an issue with enforcing US intellectual property rights within the Japanese jurisdiction in respect of products marketed domestically. There have been a number of manufacturers (ESP springs to mind as a prime example) that have been making high-quality and mass market copies for the domestic Japanese market right through the lawsuit period until now. ESP's flagship range, Navigator, builds guitars that compete with the Fender and Gibson Custom Shops on quality and price. There are a number of other boutique clone-builders who have made a tidy sum by catering to this market.

It's interesting that whilst there have been a number of Rickenbacker copies built in Japan (Fujigen via the Greco brand springs to mind), they have never been as pervasive as Fender/Gibson copies. This partly reflects Rickenbacker's low-volume profile, but I believe it also reflects the fact that Rickenbacker has not had the kind of calamitious collapse in quality control and customer satisfaction that rocked the big two and helped propel the copy industry.

[bassassin]

It's interesting that whilst there have been a number of Rickenbacker copies built in Japan (Fujigen via the Greco brand springs to mind), they have never been as pervasive as Fender/Gibson copies. This partly reflects Rickenbacker's low-volume profile, but I believe it also reflects the fact that Rickenbacker has not had the kind of calamitious collapse in quality control and customer satisfaction that rocked the big two and helped propel the copy industry.

I think you answer that partially in your earlier comment about the enforcement of US intellectual property rights in other territories. The US was undoubtedly the biggest export market for MIJ copies, and RIC is very able to pursue US importers & resellers for trademark infringement - hence Japanese Rick clones have continued to be made, but specifically for the home market.

In Europe & the UK, there are still a few Korean & Chinese made Rick copies available currently - brands like Rockinbetter ( ), Shine & Indie are fairly common. In addition to this, UK luthiers John Birch have had a Rickenbacker-styled bass (it's even called a 4001) constantly available in their range for over 30 years. Admittedly the Birch is a different kettle of fish to the budget imports - it's an expensive hand-built bass, & until recently quite a lot more costly than a real Rickenbacker - but it still infringes all of RIC's design trademarks.

I would guess this reflects that it is more difficult for RIC to successfully pursue overseas infringers - and also that their prime concern is the US, which is inevitably their biggest market.

J.

[jingle_jangle]

A big issue for Fender and Gibson was that the Japanese copies were as good as (or much better than) the "real thing" for an appreciable discount. Late '70s/early 80sTokai LP copies sell for more than the real thing from the same period. Fujigen Gakki (home of Greco and Ibanez), a major offender, eventually took up the mantle of Fender Japan (beating Tokai to the punch), as well as building guitars for Gibson under the Orville banner, such was their build quality. In addition to co-opting, the big two threatened the "rogue" Japanese makers with lawsuits in the early '80s, and this lead to minor changes in design for their export models for the bigger Japanese firms so their product would pass muster, and to the closing down of some smaller players.

However, there would appear to be an issue with enforcing US intellectual property rights within the Japanese jurisdiction in respect of products marketed domestically. There have been a number of manufacturers (ESP springs to mind as a prime example) that have been making high-quality and mass market copies for the domestic Japanese market right through the lawsuit period until now. ESP's flagship range, Navigator, builds guitars that compete with the Fender and Gibson Custom Shops on quality and price. There are a number of other boutique clone-builders who have made a tidy sum by catering to this market.

It's interesting that whilst there have been a number of Rickenbacker copies built in Japan (Fujigen via the Greco brand springs to mind), they have never been as pervasive as Fender/Gibson copies. This partly reflects Rickenbacker's low-volume profile, but I believe it also reflects the fact that Rickenbacker has not had the kind of calamitious collapse in quality control and customer satisfaction that rocked the big two and helped propel the copy industry.

Well said, Evan. And, Kira, a good summation!

Jon, I would like to see Birch stop making that dreadful thing...it smacks of arrogance, building something that steals all of Rick's geometry and design cues, then making it ugly with a zillion knobs and awful colors, then pricing it above Rickenbacker prices!

[rickenbrother]

BTW be aware a lot of folk on this board are a bit touchy on the subject of copies - the whole copyright/trademark thing is a massive thorn in the side for RIC..

The reason so many are touchy, and the main reason it's a thorn in the side for RIC is because there's too many people out there taking Rick copies, slapping a RIC truss rod cover and tailpiece on them, then passing them off to unsuspecting buyers as the real thing - at high prices.

This is a problem, but more for the unsuspecting & un-knowledgeable buyer than for RIC.

But if the unsuspecting or un-knowledgeable buyer thinks his faker is a piece of **** but still thinks it's a Rick, it doesn't look good for RIC to have people thinking that they make poor quality instruments. Even though maybe the guy eventually finds out that he would up with a fake, he's already told many that his "Rick" is a POS, they have told their friends and so on and so on...

[feedback]

Anyone heard of a Tony Revell guy in Wales?

[wints]

I went to school with a Tony Revelley....

[kiramdear]

http://www.emando.com/builders/Revell.htm

Can't say I think much of these.

[jps]

Mike Campbell has one of them Kermitglo models.

[timmy]

aye wot a can of worms/pandoras box been opened....appreciate all your comments.....wasnt Revell a plastic construction kit company? i know cos i used to make em as a kid........dont tell me they make guitars now? how times have changed.....if they could fabricate me a wife,but without all the anger and venom id buy one........cheers to all. were overcast again here-no summer again!......

[kiramdear]

aye wot a can of worms/pandoras box been opened....

It's just another day on the forum you ain't seen nothing yet

[bassassin]

But if the unsuspecting or un-knowledgeable buyer thinks his faker is a piece of **** but still thinks it's a Rick, it doesn't look good for RIC to have people thinking that they make poor quality instruments. Even though maybe the guy eventually finds out that he would up with a fake, he's already told many that his "Rick" is a POS, they have told their friends and so on and so on...

Probably just as well that most of the Japanese-made 70s copies weren't pieces of **** - arguably that's going to be why there are still 30+ year old JapCrap copies turning up wearing Rick trcs. Although realistically even the very good ones were often pretty wildly inaccurate - I doubt that many people buying a bass with "Made In Japan" stamped on its bolt-on neck plate would think it was a real Rickenbacker, no matter what was written on the sharp end!

J.

[bassassin]

Jon, I would like to see Birch stop making that dreadful thing...it smacks of arrogance, building something that steals all of Rick's geometry and design cues, then making it ugly with a zillion knobs and awful colors, then pricing it above Rickenbacker prices!

It really makes no sense - and I was amazed to find out they still made it. I can't imagine why anyone would buy one brand new - the 70s ones have the collectability that any high-end luthier-built instrument from that era will have - but why they persist in keeping it in their range, I have no idea.

I agree with you about the aesthetics - they just succeed in making it plain & ugly.

J.

[thedistrict3]

Check out these bad boys

They actually try to be genuine

That whole site has fake fenders, gibsons etc.

http://www.musoland.com.cn/classbrand.asp?LarCode=23

[kiramdear]

Check out these bad boys

They actually try to be genuine

That whole site has fake fenders, gibsons etc.

http://www.musoland.com.cn/classbrand.asp?LarCode=23

Eeeeeeewwwww, yuck!