VOX AC-30...which is the better to get?

[gellkeller]

The Wharfdales sound nice as well but they take A LOT of time and A LOT of work to break in. They can sound quite harsh out of the box but definitely sweeten up with age.

[paologregorio]

The 90s era TB AC 30s are expensive as well, as much or more than the CC series, and they're not hand wired either. The speakers aren't as cool as the Alnicos, or the Wharfdales. The CC2X's are only a couple of hundred bucks less than the white tolex HW, so it's worth it to spend the extra $200. The MF price is amazing; I never thought I'd see them that low; $2400+ was what I saw them going for before, and prices have gone up on the CC2X since I bought mine.

[1965]

If you're going to get a Vox today, the HW is the one to get. IMHO it sounds way better than the CC.

[scott_s]

I think the only way for me to afford an AC30 will be to build one from a kit.

- Scott

[paologregorio]

I think the only way for me to afford an AC30 will be to build one from a kit.

- Scott

Secret some cash away every month, and you'll get one. OR, if you're credit's decent, MF has a deal that let's you pay as little as $60 a month. That's pretty darn good for a HW Vox AC30 with Alnicos!

When I bought my CC2X, I liked the MV control and the reverb, but when I use that amp, I don't overdrive the amp, I use pedals for my distortion, and I never use the onboard reverb, as I have a spring unit in my pedal board, and I don't want to mess with having to hook up the amp switch and lay out the cord, as well as unplug it, coil the cable up, and stow it afterwards; the spring unit in my pedal board is simpler to use, already all plugged in, and sounds great, so I don't even use the features that I thought were so cool in the CC series. Besides, I usually use my vintage AC 30 these days. It's a simpler amp, and it has a super cool looking grey fawn cabinet.

since the HW model is only $200 more, and comes in the super cool white tolex, along with alnicos, go for the HW model. I plan on picking one up in the near future.

[wmthor]

I like this one with it's "special oiled mahogany cabinet". But then, you're talking about some $$$$$$$!

[jimk]

Secret some cash away every month, and you'll get one. OR, if you're credit's decent, MF has a deal that let's you pay as little as $60 a month. That's pretty darn good for a HW Vox AC30 with Alnicos!

When I bought my CC2X, I liked the MV control and the reverb, but when I use that amp, I don't overdrive the amp, I use pedals for my distortion, and I never use the onboard reverb, as I have a spring unit in my pedal board, and I don't want to mess with having to hook up the amp switch and lay out the cord, as well as unplug it, coil the cable up, and stow it afterwards; the spring unit in my pedal board is simpler to use, already all plugged in, and sounds great, so I don't even use the features that I thought were so cool in the CC series. Besides, I usually use my vintage AC 30 these days. It's a simpler amp, and it has a super cool looking grey fawn cabinet.

since the HW model is only $200 more, and comes in the super cool white tolex, along with alnicos, go for the HW model. I plan on picking one up in the near future.

How do you like lugging around a 70 lbs. amp (32 kg) around from gig to gig?

JimK

[paologregorio]

Secret some cash away every month, and you'll get one. OR, if you're credit's decent, MF has a deal that let's you pay as little as $60 a month. That's pretty darn good for a HW Vox AC30 with Alnicos!

When I bought my CC2X, I liked the MV control and the reverb, but when I use that amp, I don't overdrive the amp, I use pedals for my distortion, and I never use the onboard reverb, as I have a spring unit in my pedal board, and I don't want to mess with having to hook up the amp switch and lay out the cord, as well as unplug it, coil the cable up, and stow it afterwards; the spring unit in my pedal board is simpler to use, already all plugged in, and sounds great, so I don't even use the features that I thought were so cool in the CC series. Besides, I usually use my vintage AC 30 these days. It's a simpler amp, and it has a super cool looking grey fawn cabinet.

since the HW model is only $200 more, and comes in the super cool white tolex, along with alnicos, go for the HW model. I plan on picking one up in the near future.

How do you like lugging around a 70 lbs. amp (32 kg) around from gig to gig?

JimK

I didn't realize my amp weighted that much, but that you've mentioned that it's 70 pounds, it's probably going to feel heavier...

The AC 30 is my baby; I love the amp, so I don't think twice about it, and I've been carrying around amps like that since I started playing music. I've also played through a Super Beatle, and a Showman with a 2x15 cabinet, so a 70 pound suitcase amp is a piece of cake. I'm reasonably fit, and used to picking up things that are moderately heavy. I also stack all of my gear on a four-wheeled furniture dolly and roll it in and out of gigs whenever possible.

[BlueAngel]

Just a word of warning for anyone who is going to buy one of these new Vox 'hand wired' amps because they are 'hand wired'...

They aren't - it's a marketing con. That also explains why they are only $200 more expensive than the CC, including Alnico speakers, which are worth that on their own.

What they use is a PCB with turrets mounted on it, to which the small components are then hand soldered - this is not at all the same thing as 'hand wired', or even conventional turret board, and it has several of the 'faults' that the anti-PCB brigade criticise that method for - in fact, it could possibly be worse than either in some ways, and the only real reason I can see for using it is to be able to claim 'hand wiring', knowing that the majority of buyers won't know the difference and automatically assume 'hand done' anything means better.

This is NOT to say that it's a bad amp in any way, but it's important to realise what you're getting and why. If it sounds 'better' than the CC, it's because the circuit design is different from the CC in a way you find pleasing - it's actually a very different circuit using a completely different tube type and layout - nothing to do with the construction method whatever.

Construction method itself has no effect on tone or reliability - it's the quality of how it's done that matters, and traditionally PCBs have been used in cheaper amps, using cheaper parts and materials, and as a result they often sound worse or have reliability issues - but it's because of the specifics of the design or the component types and ratings, not the fact that there is a PCB. Some of the very best amps ever made use PCBs... just very high quality ones, in properly built chassis and cabinets, and with top-quality parts.

The speakers on the other hand have a drastic effect on tone, the most of any single component in the amp.

In fact, the AC30TBX reissue made in the 90s uses a PCB - not even an especially good one, but in a high-quality cabinet with great speakers (even the non-Blue model has Celestion G12M-25s) - and has an almost identical circuit to an original AC30. The result is that it sounds almost the same too - so much so that in one well-known blind test, it was indistinguishable from the originals to the listeners and came second in the results, behind one original but ahead of some others.


So which one to get...


If you can't afford an original in properly-serviced condition or pay to have it done afterwards (don't trust an original unless you know it's in good order internally, since many aren't and this can have a drastic effect on tone as well as reliability), but you do want the classic 6-input AC30 Top Boost tone, the AC30TBX is still the one to get. It's puzzling to me that they don't make them any more.

If you want all the modern features including MV, reverb, effects loop and power stage switching options, get the CC.

If you want the 'early AC15/AC30' pentode-preamp tone - which a lot of people seem to rave about but I personally don't like, so make sure you try it before deciding that it's better - then you want the new HW.

The old HW is a different thing again and actually sounds like none of these - if anything, it's almost more like a big and very expensive version of the AC15TBX from the 90s, which is also NOT a reissue of an original AC15 and doesn't have the pentode preamp. I didn't really like this one either, FWIW.

Confused?


Whichever one you get, either make sure it has Celestion speakers, preferably Blues, or budget for replacing them.

[chuck_king]

Does anybody make a new, well-built version of an AC30, the way that Victoria et al. make new high-quality versions of classic Fenders? My impression is that there are a number of AC30-derived boutique amps but they tend to be hot-rodded or modified circuits.

[sloop_john_b]

Does anybody make a new, well-built version of an AC30, the way that Victoria et al. make new high-quality versions of classic Fenders? My impression is that there are a number of AC30-derived boutique amps but they tend to be hot-rodded or modified circuits.

Yep, check out JMI amps.

[BlueAngel]

Amazingly, there are almost no exact copies of the classic AC30/6TB. The JMI with the Top Boost option (I'm not sure if this is done with a back panel add-on like the earliest originals, or the modernized control panel like the later ones) is the only one I know of. Every other AC30 derivative I've seen misses out the Vib/Trem channel - which to me is a critical mistake, it has a subtle effect on the tone even if you don't use it, and if you DO want to there is nothing else like it... the CC's tremolo is totally different and much simpler (and inferior, to me), as was the old AC30HW's.

Apart from that, the PCB-built AC30TBX is still the closest.

The JMIs do look nicely made, and although it still doesn't have a standby switch, it does at least appear to have an HT fuse (mounted internally, you can see the holder at the bottom of the chassis directly below the power switch in the pics on their website) which in my opinion is something that should be present on all tube amps really.

[soundmasterg]

Just a word of warning for anyone who is going to buy one of these new Vox 'hand wired' amps because they are 'hand wired'...

They aren't - it's a marketing con. That also explains why they are only $200 more expensive than the CC, including Alnico speakers, which are worth that on their own.

What they use is a PCB with turrets mounted on it, to which the small components are then hand soldered - this is not at all the same thing as 'hand wired', or even conventional turret board, and it has several of the 'faults' that the anti-PCB brigade criticise that method for - in fact, it could possibly be worse than either in some ways, and the only real reason I can see for using it is to be able to claim 'hand wiring', knowing that the majority of buyers won't know the difference and automatically assume 'hand done' anything means better.

This is NOT to say that it's a bad amp in any way, but it's important to realise what you're getting and why. If it sounds 'better' than the CC, it's because the circuit design is different from the CC in a way you find pleasing - it's actually a very different circuit using a completely different tube type and layout - nothing to do with the construction method whatever.

Construction method itself has no effect on tone or reliability - it's the quality of how it's done that matters, and traditionally PCBs have been used in cheaper amps, using cheaper parts and materials, and as a result they often sound worse or have reliability issues - but it's because of the specifics of the design or the component types and ratings, not the fact that there is a PCB. Some of the very best amps ever made use PCBs... just very high quality ones, in properly built chassis and cabinets, and with top-quality parts.

The speakers on the other hand have a drastic effect on tone, the most of any single component in the amp.

In fact, the AC30TBX reissue made in the 90s uses a PCB - not even an especially good one, but in a high-quality cabinet with great speakers (even the non-Blue model has Celestion G12M-25s) - and has an almost identical circuit to an original AC30. The result is that it sounds almost the same too - so much so that in one well-known blind test, it was indistinguishable from the originals to the listeners and came second in the results, behind one original but ahead of some others.


So which one to get...


If you can't afford an original in properly-serviced condition or pay to have it done afterwards (don't trust an original unless you know it's in good order internally, since many aren't and this can have a drastic effect on tone as well as reliability), but you do want the classic 6-input AC30 Top Boost tone, the AC30TBX is still the one to get. It's puzzling to me that they don't make them any more.

If you want all the modern features including MV, reverb, effects loop and power stage switching options, get the CC.

If you want the 'early AC15/AC30' pentode-preamp tone - which a lot of people seem to rave about but I personally don't like, so make sure you try it before deciding that it's better - then you want the new HW.

The old HW is a different thing again and actually sounds like none of these - if anything, it's almost more like a big and very expensive version of the AC15TBX from the 90s, which is also NOT a reissue of an original AC15 and doesn't have the pentode preamp. I didn't really like this one either, FWIW.

Confused?


Whichever one you get, either make sure it has Celestion speakers, preferably Blues, or budget for replacing them.

That particular type of construction method with a PCB and turrets is what Randall Aiken uses and recommends for a number of reasons. Check it out below at his site.

I've got a 1993 AC30TBX (Made in the Marshall factory in UK) and I've had it since new. Its a great amp and I'll never get rid of it. I haven't had any issues whatsoever with the PCB, and the stock chinese GZ34 went out after 12 years of use, and one speaker will be needing a recone soon, but other than that, it has been trouble free and sounds great.

Greg

http://www.aikenamps.com/PCBorPTP.htm

P.S. If you've never seen it, Aiken's site has some VERY good info about tube amps in the tech articles.

[BlueAngel]

Yes, I know of Randall Aiken very well, he's one of the most knowledgeable guys in the tube amp business and happy to bust a few myths while he's at it . I had a few good discussions with him over on another forum.

Interesting that he recommends that method, I must have missed it. I can actually see some disadvantages with it even compared to conventional PCB - mostly to do with component vibration, but also because trace length is increased due to the boards being larger overall. I certainly wouldn't have expected it to have any particular advantages - even maintenance isn't necessarily one of them, since if you aren't careful it would be fairly easy to cause a cold joint on the other side of the board if you overheat the turret slightly. If you're experienced with working on PCBs you'll know to avoid this, but many techs of the old-school type might not. Aiken's boards will be ultra-high quality and won't suffer from that from his description (double-sided and through-plated, with mechanically secured turrets), but I wouldn't count on the same thing being true for cheaper amps apparently using the same method... the devil is in the details.

I actually prefer high-quality PCB, you may be surprised to know... it's neat, consistent, very reliable (provided higher-power and heavier components are spec'ed and mounted correctly, and preferably jacks kept off the board entirely) and actually not that difficult to work on if you know what you're doing. I certainly don't mind - even if you have to take the board out to get at the solder side, it's usually just a matter of careful dismantling which doesn't really take that long. The failure rates for modern mass-produced PCB amps are really pretty low - I know some techs like to moan about them, and I have to admit I've long since lost count of things like Fender Hotrods I've worked on... but there are enormous numbers of them out there and they really don't break down that often.

I guess I just don't like to see something marketed in a deliberately misleading way, especially when it's the usual 'hand made means better' nonsense... the music world seems to be ridiculously taken in by this. I don't know of any manufactured product which is truly hand-made, or even better for it... quite the opposite usually. You can't 'hand build' an amp at all, in fact - since all the components are machine-made the closest you can do is to hand-assemble it, and then it becomes very debatable as to where and how you draw the line.

To directly quote Aiken from that page... "Make an informed decision on which to buy based on quality of construction, not hype. "

[jps]

Every other AC30 derivative I've seen misses out the Vib/Trem channel - which to me is a critical mistake, it has a subtle effect on the tone even if you don't use it, and if you DO want to there is nothing else like it... the CC's tremolo is totally different and much simpler (and inferior, to me), as was the old AC30HW's.

I love the tremolo on my Princeton Reverb. Better sounding than the 'grounding out' one on the '66 Bandmaster I used to have. It has been said that CLF like the later BF tremolo better, probably due to it being cheaper to implement! I prefer the bias modulated tremolo of the PR.