Someone please, educate me on the 420.......

[jazzsmith]

OK,......... my thread on '70's Rickenbackers had an ulterior motive. I've been wanting a small, light, probably single p'up vintage guitar to just have sitting out near the computer, to try out new ideas, or something I just learned, or to walk around the house playing unplugged or plugged. And yet something that fits with the rest of my collection (none of which were made post-69) and that I could parlay into a trade sometime down the line. A few years ago that would have meant a mid-'60's SG Jr., but they are 4 to 5 thou these days. Or it might have been a single or double cut away Danelectro, but much as I love 'em, I just won't spend $1500+ on one. Today I saw a '71 Fireglo 420, single toaster p'up, all original with OHSC. Not a bad price. I've never played one of these. What are they like? Could someone share their insights with me? Thank you.........

[rick_ovic]

Okay Jeffrey, here goes.......

Between 1958 and 1964 the solid body, full scale, single pickup model, without vibrato, was known as the Combo 425. The earliest models had a neck through body design, with the body 1 5/8 inches deep. The thinner body was introduced in 1961.

Here's my example. I'm particularly fond of the pressed metal truss rod cover on these early models:-

It's a very reasonant guitar. I loved to play this one unplugged and I prefer the thicker body style. It feels somewhat Telecaster-like to play and sounds like an Esquire with a bit more mid-range dialled in. It doesn't have the same "bite" that my '62 Les Paul/SG Jr has though, due in part to the pickup placement being further away from the bridge.

In 1965 some 425s were equipped with the unusual Boyd vibrato.

Around this time, the non-vibrato 425 was replaced by the 420.

The production of 420 models ran from 1965 to 1983, with hi-gains replacing toasters in the latter years.

John Biscuti recently picked up a 425V63 reissue. Here's what he had to say about the sound and playability:-

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=384475

In my view, the 420-425 guitars are hugely under-rated and under-valued. However, in the absence of any famous users (with the exception of George Harrison perhaps) their value will never increase at the same rate as the more popular Rickenbacker models.

I hope this info helps your decision making. In my view, go for it, if it's at the right price!

[jazzsmith]

Wow...., Thanks Darren! Your's is a beautiful example, but I would imagine that the metal trussrod cover models command pretty high prices. The one that I'm looking at is on Willie's American Guitars website. It is a FG '71 with a single toaster p'up. One thing I always look for on a Rickenbacker is the height of the bridge from the bridge plate. I've never known quite how to "read" these guitars, bridge-wise. I also check out the neck/body angle on other Rics as they tend to run contrary to say...... a Les Paul. On the 420's and 425's however I find the neck to be at the same angle as the body, which is good I guess. Is that your observation as well? I would presume that .045-.010 roundwounds would be a good all round choice for strings.

Thanks again.

[collin]

However, in the absence of any famous users (with the exception of George Harrison perhaps) their value will never increase at the same rate as the more popular Rickenbacker models.

Actually, while it may not be so familiar to many boomers etc, Courtney Love was quite well known for playing 425 and Electro models in the early Hole days. (Now, whether she could actually play it well is another story! )

It reflected a bit on 425 desireability in the mid 90s, but it may affect prices in the future as people my age get older...

[rick_ovic]

Thanks for the info, Collin. I had no idea Courtney Love used a 425. The one she is pictured with above looks like it's from the same time period as mine. Cool.

[sloop_john_b]

She eventually covered "Rickenbacker" on the TRC with little green shamrock stickers.

[collin]

She eventually covered "Rickenbacker" on the TRC with little green shamrock stickers.

haha, yep. I think that was the same guitar, I can't remember for sure though. She had a slew of them over the years, and at least one Electro ES-17

I remember reading an interview where she said she liked the "small girly (?) Rickenbackers with one pickup" plus in the early 90s they were cheap!

[jps]

"Girlie Rickenbackers"

[jps]

Excuse me, but I'll take that manly Rickenbacker in the corner, please. You know, that one over there with two pickups on that big hollow body!

[jazzsmith]

Hey,.... I finally figured out what TRC stands for and its not The Rickenbacker Company!

I seem to remember that Courtney did like "little" guitars. I think I saw her with a Fender Mustang or Duo Sonic in a photo. She was wearing one of those baby doll dresses she favored at that time. The first Hole album (Live Through This?) was pretty good - TOO good perhaps. It has been suggested that Kurt wrote the songs, or at least contributed heavily.

[rick_ovic]

Excuse me, but I'll take that manly Rickenbacker in the corner, please. You know, that one over there with two pickups on that big hollow body!

It doesn't get much more "manly" than this then, does it?

[rkbsound]

I might have heard a rumor once that Billie Corgan wrote a song or two for her, of which he was not credited? The 425 is a great looking guitar - though I've never played one.

[collin]

The first Hole album (Live Through This?) was pretty good - TOO good perhaps. It has been suggested that Kurt wrote the songs, or at least contributed heavily.

Pretty on the Inside was the first album, Live Through This was the 2nd. It is speculated that Cobain wrote parts of LTT, but in reality he only helped musically on a few verses, and one chorus (doll parts).

The Corgan myth is true, he put massive time into Hole's third studio album Celebrity Skin, and is credited for it.


I have no idea why...but I'm embarassed to know all this (yet admitedly a Nirvana/Hole fan though..)

[rick_ovic]

Hey Collin, don't worry, it's cool that you know all of this!

Corgan is a huge Cheap Trick fan and Courtney Love openly admits to attempting to recreate that Cheap Trick sound for the Celebrity Skin album.

Just listen to the song "Malibu" and imagine CT performing it:-

[collin]

Just listen to the song "Malibu" and imagine CT performing it:-

WOW, you are totally right, I never even thought about it. Especially the chorus with it's "singalong" quality and underlying 70s riffs.

That's pretty cool