the nerve of somone to delete the topic

[grazioso]

Re: The nerve of some people...
to delete the topic

the guy in ric forum had said what bothered him and he is right to say it out loud and he was charged and found guilty oh that is 21 century in usa isn't it?

+ i agree with 481 with someones name on it too even though i never can remember who the hell is it... and what band is he in.
+ it is good point that someone made - the one - that ric is happy with backlog to some extent.
i however disagree that rick is not making attempts to lure new younger crowd. all their oil finished guitars were just that. .they are trying. i have said it before that ric needs to get on lower price range with something like 450 labeled electro.

gretsch under fender corporate foot brought back corvette and it is nice instrument that is around $500 new. i have to admit that even though it is made in china it is made well. i thought i'll never buy one single guitar made there and i did because it plays great. all you need to do with it is setup but that applies to any new guitar even ric.

[sloop_john_b]

+ i agree with 481 with someones name on it too even though i never can remember who the hell is it... and what band is he in.
+ it is good point that someone made - the one - that ric is happy with backlog to some extent.
i however disagree that rick is not making attempts to lure new younger crowd. all their oil finished guitars were just that. .they are trying. i have said it before that ric needs to get on lower price range with something like 450 labeled electro.

That would be Sergio Pizzorno of Kasabian.

I don't look at the 650's as trying to appeal to a younger audience, per se, just a wider one. It's their attempt (and a great one at that) at making excellent lead guitars that can do harder rock with ease.

[JakeK]

I think Peter McCormack deleted it..and rightfully so.

[grazioso]

what happened there? some insult?

[sloop_john_b]

Let's try again, over here: http://rickresource.com/forum/viewtopic ... 3&t=384566

[BlueAngel]

I think Peter McCormack deleted it..and rightfully so.

Rightfully in what way? Because personal insults were being traded? Or because something libelous about RIC or some other party was posted?

Or was it perhaps because ANY criticism of RIC - even at second hand and by implication only - is treated as blasphemy here?

What's utterly ridiculous about deleting it here is that even over on the official RIC forum itself, Mr. Hall himself did not delete the original thread - he simply locked it when it began to veer too far off on a tangent (which I think was largely in humor) that wasn't really related to Rickenbacker at all.

The original post itself was controversial, but not rude or insulting - it even started by saying he thought Rickenbacker instruments are the best in the world.

But this isn't about whether the original post on RIC was right or wrong, or whether the thread here was right or wrong... it's about the unnecessary and disturbing degree of censorship that exists here. The Zealots here seem to have got out of hand defending something that is quite capable of standing on its own merits without this nonsense.

I don't know why I'm bothering though, since this one will most likely go the same way too.

[grazioso]

well something's wrong with world today.... we really should be tolerant of different opinions. btw. is there anything more enjoyable than blasting someone in polite debate? what's the point of forum if that is not part of it?

[admin]

The reason this post was deleted was because it began at the RIC forum and seems to have run its course there. If you have comments you wish to make within that context then by all means feel free to make them there.

This is not about nerve, but the policy here that we have discussed before.

[ricaddic]

NO COMMENT!!!! LOL

[paologregorio]

I've said it before, but once again, here's the deal; we all agree to certain rules as being members of and posting on this forum. When the rules are violated, the post is removed. It's that simple. Go back and read the rules. Differing opinions are not squelched here. If a post is deleted it's because of other reasons.

[rickenbrother]

Whether people bothered to read the agreement or not when they joined the forum, when they clicked on the button that said they would agree, then that automatically means they should abide by the rules.
There are plenty of other places on the web where you are allowed to make denigrating comments and offensive remarks.
If you didn't read the agreement then, read it now. If you read it then, for some it's time to read it again!

By accessing “Rickresource Rickenbacker Forum” (hereinafter “we”, “us”, “our”, “Rickresource Rickenbacker Forum”, “http://www.rickresource.com/forum”), you agree to be legally bound by the following terms. If you do not agree to be legally bound by all of the following terms then please do not access and/or use “Rickresource Rickenbacker Forum”. We may change these at any time and it is recommended that you review these conditions regularly yourself as you continue to use "Rickresource Rickenbacker Forum".

The RickResource Forum was created to foster public reading and moderated discussion with respect to Rickenbacker instruments and related musical topics. It is not affiliated with Rickenbacker International Corporation. Those posts that are considered to be rude, offensive, off topic, nonsensical or deemed inappropriate for this Forum, or that show apparent disrespect for others, including RIC and its employees will be edited or deleted at the discretion of the Webmaster. Topics focusing on religion, politics or sexuality are not permitted on the RickResource Forum and will be deleted. Please also be advised that while registration is required to post, your comments can be read by members of the public who may not be registered. Should you decide to post you agree that your commments become part of the public record. Please take note that the only Official statement on Rickenbacker instruments, policy and service is at Rickenbacker International Corporation - Santa Ana, California.
In keeping with a respect for others, you agree not to post any abusive, obscene, vulgar, slanderous, hateful, threatening, insensitive, sexually-orientated or any other material that may violate any laws be it of your country, the country where Rickresource Rickenbacker Forum is hosted or International Law. Doing so may lead to you being immediately and permanently banned, with notification of your Internet Service Provider if deemed required by us. The IP address of all posts are recorded to aid in enforcing these conditions. You agree that Rickresource Rickenbacker Forum have the right to remove, edit, move or close any topic at any time should we see fit. As a user you agree to any information you have entered to being stored in a database. While this information will not be disclosed to any third party without your consent, neither Rickresource Rickenbacker Forum nor phpBB shall be held responsible for any hacking attempt that may lead to the data being compromised.
Please take that posts are required to be written in proper English follow the common net etiquettes guidelines, for example: "how r u?" is not proper English, additionally - ALL CAPS posts will be deleted/modified too, no need to shout - we hear you perfectly well!

[BlueAngel]

Whether people bothered to read the agreement or not when they joined the forum, when they clicked on the button that said they would agree, then that automatically means they should abide by the rules.
There are plenty of other places on the web where you are allowed to make denigrating comments and offensive remarks.
If you didn't read the agreement then, read it now. If you read it then, for some it's time to read it again!

By accessing “Rickresource Rickenbacker Forum” (hereinafter “we”, “us”, “our”, “Rickresource Rickenbacker Forum”, “http://www.rickresource.com/forum”), you agree to be legally bound by the following terms. If you do not agree to be legally bound by all of the following terms then please do not access and/or use “Rickresource Rickenbacker Forum”. We may change these at any time and it is recommended that you review these conditions regularly yourself as you continue to use "Rickresource Rickenbacker Forum".

The RickResource Forum was created to foster public reading and moderated discussion with respect to Rickenbacker instruments and related musical topics. It is not affiliated with Rickenbacker International Corporation. Those posts that are considered to be rude, offensive, off topic, nonsensical or deemed inappropriate for this Forum, or that show apparent disrespect for others, including RIC and its employees will be edited or deleted at the discretion of the Webmaster. Topics focusing on religion, politics or sexuality are not permitted on the RickResource Forum and will be deleted. Please also be advised that while registration is required to post, your comments can be read by members of the public who may not be registered. Should you decide to post you agree that your commments become part of the public record. Please take note that the only Official statement on Rickenbacker instruments, policy and service is at Rickenbacker International Corporation - Santa Ana, California.
In keeping with a respect for others, you agree not to post any abusive, obscene, vulgar, slanderous, hateful, threatening, insensitive, sexually-orientated or any other material that may violate any laws be it of your country, the country where Rickresource Rickenbacker Forum is hosted or International Law. Doing so may lead to you being immediately and permanently banned, with notification of your Internet Service Provider if deemed required by us. The IP address of all posts are recorded to aid in enforcing these conditions. You agree that Rickresource Rickenbacker Forum have the right to remove, edit, move or close any topic at any time should we see fit. As a user you agree to any information you have entered to being stored in a database. While this information will not be disclosed to any third party without your consent, neither Rickresource Rickenbacker Forum nor phpBB shall be held responsible for any hacking attempt that may lead to the data being compromised.
Please take that posts are required to be written in proper English follow the common net etiquettes guidelines, for example: "how r u?" is not proper English, additionally - ALL CAPS posts will be deleted/modified too, no need to shout - we hear you perfectly well!

I read those rules when I joined, and reading them again now doesn't explain why the original thread was deleted.

The ONLY part of that which I can see applied to the original thread was that "You agree that Rickresource Rickenbacker Forum have the right to remove, edit, move or close any topic at any time should we see fit."

The original post didn't contain any denigrating comments or offensive remarks, and if there were any in later posts they could have been edited without deleting the whole thread, or even whole posts. This is also not the reason Peter gave for the removal of the thread. (For what it's worth, the original thread is locked over on RIC so further comments cannot be made.)

I know perfectly well that this is a privately-owned forum and that there is no such thing as 'freedom of speech' here, but any worthwhile discussion involves more than one viewpoint, which can be done in a civil manner even on contentious issues. But it appears that anything other than unquestioning worship for RIC and its products is going to be treated as 'slanderous' or 'offensive', or fall within some other arbitrary definition of 'inappropriate' that can be used to justify silencing it.

[kiramdear]

If someone doesn't know what happened, here it is:
The deleted thread linked to a statement which contained insulting remarks about a well known Rickenbacker artist and his fans. Even though it seemed merely amusing to me and others, it was a mistake to invite further discussion of those remarks here of which I even regrettably took part. Additionally, the writer offered some opinions about RIC marketing and young artists which were not without merit, and that portion of the discussion was resurrected here ("Once more, with feeling...") and has been thriving all day. I love a conspiracy theory as much as anybody but there's no smoking gun here, just an exercise in good manners.
Thank you, Peter, for your vigilance. I trust your hand on the helm.

[sowhat]

I would ask that should interested parties wish to discuss contentious issues that originate in other forums, that they do it there.
Bringing conflicting issues from other forums here simply creates hard feelings all around.

Source: http://www.rickresource.com/phpBB3/view ... 5&t=384562
Sounds 100 % reasonable to me. Otherwise we may face the situation when somebody who had an unpleasant experience at some other message board would come here for approval (like, "you're friends and i am sure you'll give me support and say my opponent is wrong/crazy/knows nothing"). I've seen that quite a few times in other web communities, and that doesn't really look good, imho.
The rule "posts are required to be written in proper English" sounds a bit scary, though. But perhaps it's just my problem and the majority of the members (native English speakers) have no problem with that.

[admin]

John: Rules are a useful guideline so that people joining can have some idea of what to expect. Most who join begin to have a feel for what is appropriate and they incorporate their new learnings with the existing boundaries that they have formed during their socialization. If we were required to write to incorporate "all things commonsense" in our rules, all of the existing forum pages would be used up with this task.

This Forum is based on a love of Rickenbackers and a respect for those who post here and elsewhere. That it is a pro-Rickenbacker Forum is not a secret. Discussing other points of view is certainly allowed and it happens every day. The manner in which we do this, including tone, respect for others feelings, fostering a comfortable climate and knowing when to let things go is important.

I am simply asking that we allow other forums to sort of their own business and that if we have comments to make that we take them there. Citing contentious topics from other forums and bringing them here is, to my way of thinking, inappropriate in that we are crossing a boundary.

I would ask that we think beyond the narrow point that we are trying to make in a specific post and ask ourselves what the long-term cost of our comments may be. A reputation is hard to earn and so easily lost. Nothing is free, especially speech as it all comes at a cost.