Roger Mcguinn wiring

Oldmedic54 · Post by **Oldmedic54** » Tue Oct 07, 2008 11:09 am

Hey fellow rickys,,I am looking for the wireing diagram for the reissue 370RM...I would ;like to no what to do in the wireing to get his sound.I have heard something about a cap. on the treble control..but not sure..if someone has the wireing schem, that would be cool...the ric website is no help wit this one...thanks...Beatlefreak..any help with this one???? oldmedic54

mark_telfer · Post by **mark_telfer** » Wed Oct 08, 2008 1:45 pm

Here it is:

rick36 · Post by **rick36** » Wed Oct 08, 2008 9:51 pm

Is the Forum cool, or what?

Oldmedic54 · Post by **Oldmedic54** » Wed Oct 08, 2008 10:47 pm

Yes ,,this forum is awsom....stupid question,,,what do I have to do to my 360/12 FG with vintage pups,,to get the sound? I heard of a capasiter(spelling),,that I could add somewhere...whats the thinking here?

beatlefreak · Post by **beatlefreak** » Wed Oct 08, 2008 11:35 pm

You're thinking of the vintage tone capacitor that was in-line with the treble pickup on sixties Rickenbackers. It's a 0.0047µf cap that replaces the wire going from the selector switch to the wiper of the treble volume control. It forms a high pass filter that cuts bass and some mid frequencies.

The other thing that will help you get 'that sound' is a compressor pedal.

rick36 · Post by **rick36** » Thu Oct 09, 2008 1:03 am

Or, you could simply run the guitar through a phono pre-amplifier to a Walkie-Talkie speaker mounted in a cigar box (preferably Havana) cabinet and a big rack mounted studio compressor, as McGuinn says he did during the "5D" LP sessions. Personally, that's my favourite McGuinn sound...squashed and stinging!

jimk · Post by **jimk** » Thu Oct 09, 2008 12:41 pm

rick36 wrote:Or, you could simply run the guitar through a phono pre-amplifier to a Walkie-Talkie speaker mounted in a cigar box (preferably Havana) cabinet and a big rack mounted studio compressor, as McGuinn says he did during the "5D" LP sessions. Personally, that's my favourite McGuinn sound...squashed and stinging!

Is that the same sound he got on "King of the Hill" on his Back from Rio LP? It sounds similar to what he got on Limited Edition in his cover of George Harrison's "If I Needed Some One"...long, undistorted sustain. I rather like that sound.

JimK

rick36 · Post by **rick36** » Thu Oct 09, 2008 10:07 pm

The "5D" Albums producer, Allen Stanton, must have had some input there - that LP and Ric sounded like no other. But you can still pick up the occasional similar sounding 370/12 in later recordings, some of them on LP's such as Sweetheart of the Rodeo's "Pretty Polly" (electric version) & many on McGuinns Folk Den such as "Away in A Manger" & "Molly Malone". More please...

rick36 · Post by **rick36** » Fri Oct 10, 2008 12:51 am

Again, credit where credit is due:

"A rather mysterious figure in Byrds annals, Stanton is known by rock fans almost solely for producing the group's third album, Fifth Dimension, in 1966. Stanton was West Coast Vice President at Columbia when Terry Melcher, who had produced the Byrds' first two albums, was eased out of his position with the band. Fifth Dimension was an erratic but intermittently brilliant album, as the Byrds maintained a folk-rock base while branching into psychedelic music, particularly on the classic "Eight Miles High." Thus it would be difficult to say that Stanton failed at his task, although there have been little specific comments about his role and contribution, even in Johnny Rogan's massive Byrds biography The Byrds: Timeless Flight Revisited: The Sequel (although it was noted that he suggested the strings used on "Wild Mountain Thyme"

). McGuinn did go on record as finding Stanton's manner too officious, while Crosby complained that he would interrupt the band in the middle of takes to take breaks."

"Hold that thought (err...note)" - I'll have a double cheeseburger...

OldTechnician · Post by **OldTechnician** » Thu Sep 30, 2010 3:45 pm

Gentlemen;

I know this is a tad late in reply, but I just recently found this forum.

I have a 370/12RME1, and took a few photos for reference. Hopefully, this will prove useful for future owners.

[img]C:\Documents%20and%20Settings\Ben\My%20Documents\My%20Pictures\HP%205550C%20Scanner\McGuinn%20370-12RM%20electronics%20mounting%20point.jpg[/img]

[img]C:\Documents%20and%20Settings\Ben\My%20Documents\My%20Pictures\HP%205550C%20Scanner\McGuinn%20E1%20board%20-%20component%20side.jpg[/img]

[img]C:\Documents%20and%20Settings\Ben\My%20Documents\My%20Pictures\HP%205550C%20Scanner\McGuinn%20E1%20board%20bottom%20side%20shot.jpg[/img]

[img]C:\Documents%20and%20Settings\Ben\My%20Documents\My%20Pictures\HP%205550C%20Scanner\McGuinn%20E1%20board%20bottom%20side%20view%20shot.jpg[/img]

[img]C:\Documents%20and%20Settings\Ben\My%20Documents\My%20Pictures\HP%205550C%20Scanner\McGuinn%20E1%20board%20controls%20-%20knobs%20off.jpg[/img]

[img]C:\Documents%20and%20Settings\Ben\My%20Documents\My%20Pictures\HP%205550C%20Scanner\McGuinn%20E1%20board%20controls%20on%20pickguard.jpg[/img]

[img]C:\Documents%20and%20Settings\Ben\My%20Documents\My%20Pictures\HP%205550C%20Scanner\McGuinn%20E1%20board%20foil%20side.jpg[/img]

[img]C:\Documents%20and%20Settings\Ben\My%20Documents\My%20Pictures\HP%205550C%20Scanner\McGuinn%20E1%20board%20top%20side%20view%20shot.jpg[/img]

The discrete transistors are all 2N5088. It's audio, so the op-amp with the sanded-off numbers is probably a TL-series or LM-series. Just stick in an NE5534 or an OPA2134 and more than likely you'll exceed the original performance. (just add some tantalum bypass caps of maybe 1uf or so from each power input point at the chip to ground)

The McGuinn electronics are a tad over-reacting with bass notes, and have an odd decay characteristic because of the integral noise gate. I personally don't like that. Much prefer the sound of a good optical-based compressor as the compression ratio could get a lot higher with far less of the symptomatic breathing. Also, this design uses a single 9V battery... and op-amps really need a positive/negative power supply to perform well.

The early rack-mount tube compressors weren't all that good at extreme settings. (I know because I own about 4 channels of studio tube compression) I suspect that the two compressors in series was done because of this. I'd go further and *guess* that one compressor was a CBS Audimax II and the other an Altec 436 or 438, with a Pultec EQP-1 in between them. With a 438, you could plug the guitar directly into the compressor as it has a mic-level input. The Pultec would goose the top-end and sweeten it a tad, and the CBS Audimax would compress it further. Overall, it would make for a great sound, but you would most definitely need a noise gate as all these vacuum tubes are thermionic noise generators and the hiss would be intense. Note that with modern-day optical compressors, it is far easier to get good results with high compression ratios. These days, I'd suggest a Behringer Composer and some kind of EQ box in line with it.

If you're looking to duplicate this circuit and put it in your existing Rick 12-string, I would strongly suggest something else. I would suggest a noise gate, EQ circuit to boost the top-end, and obviously an optical-based compressor. Plenty of stuff on DIY sites that will be workable. Save yourself the aggravation and *don't* build it into the guitar; make it an external stomp-box. Whatever you do, don't add one of those cheesy chorus circuits to the mix, ok? Makes a great 12-string sound like it is out of tune!

Re: McGuinn's early (first two LPs) Byrds studio sound: Based on pictures I have seen, McGuinn's amp back then was a Fender Showman with the 2x12 closed-back JBL cabinet, and in the studio it was miked with a U-47.... that's the expensive part!

Somewhere, I have early studio out-takes of The Byrds. Yes, they are out there; came out in a bootleg box set decades ago. The recordings were originally made on Ampex 300-3 three-track machines. Amazing sound, and much less compression on those guitar tracks than you would believe. When it was all mastered for LP, they added more compression. I further suspect that when the 3-track was mixed to 2 track, along with the additional vocals, more compression was added.

Hope this helps someone!

jimk · Post by **jimk** » Fri Oct 01, 2010 1:13 am

Interesting analysis, Ben. I was wondering if you could upload the photos to the forum. The links aren't working. I'd sure be interested.
JimK

OldTechnician · Post by **OldTechnician** » Fri Oct 01, 2010 3:28 am

Hi Jim!

I'd love to... but I haven't the slightest idea *how*. Thought that the funny little buttons on the compose window would actually initiate an upload with that added code, but apparently it doesn't.

I'm open to suggestions.

Ben

jimk · Post by **jimk** » Fri Oct 01, 2010 11:25 am

When you add a reply to a thread, scroll way down to the bottom of the page. You'll see a box that will enable you to upload photos from your computer. See the screen shot below for details. Follow the directions, and Bob's your uncle.
JimK