Motorheads: Just bought an 09 Pontiac G8 GT

[rictified]

Congrats Bob,
As Evan said earlier, it looks suspiciously like Australias own Holden Commodore SS. It is!! The coupe version is our 'Monaro". I spent a fair bit of the last 12 years working in liason with the experimental garage at GM-H here in Melbourne. A good part of that time was working on these new beasts. Enjoy.
Yes , having kids certainly stops the cash flow on those magnificent cars of our youth , but every now and then i get the chance to purchase and restore a 60's classic. The number of 64-5-6 mustangs i've rebuilt over the years is getting to a level where i cant recall how many.

Well you guys certainly know how to build a great car, I belong to several G8 GT forums and some of the guys there buy Holden parts and customize their GT's. Keep building those great cars, it's about time someone built a fast, interesting, fun car that doesn't cost an arm and a leg.

[gibsonlp]

B.t.w, a small confession:

I am more of a dieselhead than petrolhead, I just LOVE lots of torque at low RPM and I drive a chipped 2.0L TDI Audi with 210HP @4200 RPM and 310lb/ft of torque @ 2500.
All from a 2.0L Turbo diesel engine that managed to do 55Mpg (23Km per liter) outside the city.
I don't fancy high revving engines either, but combining a growl of a V8 with an endless power curve is just a dream.

[ken_j]

My point about torque and hp vs. rpm is that an engine that produces its torque at a lower rpm generally has a broader range of power making it more pleasing to drive. The Mitsubishi that Gil stated, "... 2.0L single turbo 4 cylinder engine - 291HP @ 6500RPM, 300lb/ft of torque @ 4400RPM", would probably have a better power range than the others, but as you pointed out you need to see the whole curve. Since we are comparing apples with apples is the Audi a two valve per cylinder pushrod motor? The 6.0 liter in the G8 is. The reason this engine was developed as a pushrod engine is to keep the displacement large with the physical size of the engine small. The external dimensions of the Gen 3/4 small block are smaller than most if not all V8 DOHC engine including GM's 4.6 liter Northstar. This way it will fit under the hood of a Corvette and at that time (of development around '93) the Camero and Firebird. The Corvette is available with the slightly larger 6.2 liter supercharged engine with 638 hp @ 6500 rpm and 604 lb-ft of torque @ 3800 rpm. Its predecessor was a naturally aspirated 7.0 liter small block.

[rictified]

You need to compare oranges to oranges not oranges to apples.

You can't compare a naturally aspirated 2.0L engine with a turbocharged one or with a 6.0L engine...
The nice thing about the high revving V8 VAG or BMW engines is that at the same RPM they still produce more power than their American counterparts, checkout the RS4/R8 power curve for example:

Mind you - this is a dyno test, add ~20% for the power coming out of the crank.
The great thing about this is the the power curve is pretty much straight as this is a naturally aspirated engine.

Checkout the power curve again please, you'll see that at around 5300 RPM (the RPM in which the G8 gets maximum power) the RS4 4.2L engine still produces roughly the same HP as the G8's 6.0L.
What you get is a wider power curve, basically a similar power curve as the G8, but instead of having the power dropping after 5,300RPM until the redline (somewhere around 6000RPM) you continue to build more and more power until you reach 7,500 RPM and there it goes down a little bit until it redlines at 8,000 RPM.

True, the RS4 is a bit extreme car, but if you checkout more modest cars, you'll see it is pretty much the same.

Edit: Bob, if your plan is to modify your car, you got the best thing

The Audi sounds like a really nice car:

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/audi-rs4/

But, you have to realize that the base price of an Audi RS4 starts at more than double what a G8 GT goes for, 08 Audi RS4's start at 66K and I paid 33K for mine with upgrades, the base list price is 30K for an 09. I have to remember to bring my old AC-DC Cd's with me tomorrow. I'm on a highway to Hell!

[rictified]

B.t.w, a small confession:

I am more of a dieselhead than petrolhead, I just LOVE lots of torque at low RPM and I drive a chipped 2.0L TDI Audi with 210HP @4200 RPM and 310lb/ft of torque @ 2500.
All from a 2.0L Turbo diesel engine that managed to do 55Mpg (23Km per liter) outside the city.
I don't fancy high revving engines either, but combining a growl of a V8 with an endless power curve is just a dream.

A dieselhead? Your dream vehicle must be a locomotive

[gibsonlp]

Ken: the Evo X is a really extreme car and I am sure the power curve isn't that nice, only 1 turbo and such amount of power can mean only one thing: a turbo lag as long as the waitlist for Rickenbacker guitars
However, again, compare apples to apples and no, the Audi has quite a few more than 2 valves per cylinder, but it's power curve is simply straight and VERY linear from 50HP @ 1000rpm to 420HP @ 7500RPM, which makes it a VERY nice and smooth ride with lots of power at any RPM.

Bob: True, as I said - the RS4 is an extreme car, but that's not an excuse for the American car manufacturers to continue making large inefficient engines. Look where it gets them, thousands of employees are about to lose their jobs as people can't afford paying so much for fuel.

And, my dream TDI car is the one that won the last 3 LeMans races - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audi_R10 (5.5L V12, 700HP, 840lb/ft of torque (no idea in what RPM) and ~25mpg...)
But to be more realistic... - bmw 635d, 3.0L Twin Turbo Diesel. 286HP @ 4400RPM, 430lb/ft torque @ 1750RPM, 42MPG outside the city.

[jps]

And, my dream TDI car is the one that won the last 3 LeMans races - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audi_R10 (5.5L V12, 700HP, 840lb/ft of torque (no idea in what RPM) and ~25mpg...)

I was thinking of that when you said you preferred diesels. Audi vs. Peugeot.

[gibsonlp]

Peugeot only got their diesel car into the race this year, however - they were very close to win it...

Bob: another thing I forgot to add - the price of the G8 is indeed very good for what you get and especially with the aftermarket modifications you can have later on.
B.t.w - will that void the warranty?
I am not sure that if you go "bucks for power" - the European cars have any chance as they are considerably more expensive. My only problem is with the way the American car industry is going, I don't see a good outcome.

[wints]

You still get incredible value for money from certain models, new and used, here in the States. Horsepower is still cheap compared to Europe, and gas prices still make it somewhat viable to go for cubes.

Best value for money here today? This takes some beating...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_Phaeton

Make sure you get the W12, and the mandatory dealer history, and basically, you have a Bentley for between $25-30K. Superior design, build quality, and a simply magnificent engine, make this a phenomenal machine...

[leftybass]

Yep....I actually have a chance to buy a friends Rolls-Royce, a super deal. It may happen one day (dunno when, though....)

[jps]

Yep....I actually have a chance to buy a friends Rolls-Royce, a super deal. It may happen one day (dunno when, though....)

Is it a lefty?

[leftybass]

LOL...Yep, it is LHD, made for this market. '72 Silver Shadow LWB....White w/a blue top, blue leather. A beauty.

[rictified]

Bob: True, as I said - the RS4 is an extreme car, but that's not an excuse for the American car manufacturers to continue making large inefficient engines. Look where it gets them, thousands of employees are about to lose their jobs as people can't afford paying so much for fuel.
.

Gil they haven't been making cars like this for a long time which i believe is half their problem, they've been trying to imitate foreign cars which obviously is not their forte. Maybe they will have to downsize but there is still a sizable segment of the American driving public that likes rear wheel drive, large displacement, V8 cars, the G8 GT while being Australian is already becoming a big hit here. My father calls large V8's lazy engines, in other words they don't have to work very hard for their power which makes them longer lasting. I have a 95 Buick V8 350 CI (5.7L 260 HP) with 130K on it which does not burn a drop of oil, it just loafs along.
I'm not an anti-regulation person but regulations almost killed the American car. Starting in 1974 their HP ratings went way down as the engines were muzzled making American cars terrible on gas and very slow. It has taken them a long time to realize what we really want and to recover. In the meantime European and Japanese cars have made huge inroads here. Yes it is partially their fault not making them run cleaner way back but the cure almost killed them. A high revving small engine may make sense in Europe where the speed limits are higher such as in Germany but here it doesn't make sense. We want something that has a lot of torque off the line also. Incidentally an engine which makes almost 1 HP per cubic inch is not an inefficient engine.
The engine tune may void the warranty depending on the dealer but is undetectable by the dealer unless they really go looking which is doubtful seeing as how much it costs them per hour.
Try one you may like it.

[wmthor]

I have a '02 Ford F-150 Super Crew with a 300 hp 5.4L. I also have an '08 Jeep Grand Cherokee with the 345 hp 5.7 Hemi MDS engine. Whenever I get into the Jeep after driving the Ford for a couple of weeks, it's like getting behind the wheel of a sports car.

[rictified]

I have a '02 Ford F-150 Super Crew with a 300 hp 5.4L. I also have an '08 Jeep Grand Cherokee with the 345 hp 5.7 Hemi MDS engine. Whenever I get into the Jeep after driving the Ford for a couple of weeks, it's like getting behind the wheel of a sports car.

I've heard those were fast. I almost bought a new Charger RT a few years ago but didn't like the payments. These are even worse . This car has a great sound system in it too, 230 watts with subwoofer amp (amp full up of course). Mel Schacher was blasting me out of the car today.