pulling the nails on a hi-gain?

[kiramdear]

I searched out a few words of comment about this practice whereby one could remove the pole pieces from a hi-gain pickup and substitute set screws that would lie flush with the surface. Would this be done purely for cosmetic reasons, i.e. the hi-gain could wear a toaster cover? Last question, is there any alteration of the tone of the pickup in doing this?

[johnhall]

Hi Gains have been made in several different ways through the years. The latest version uses a solid molded plastic bobbin upon which the copper magnet wire is wound. Earlier versions used end caps of various materials, spaced apart and held together by the iron drive pin pole pieces, upon which tape insulation was wound, followed by the copper windings.

The later solid plastic design has no mechanical issues if you remove the pins, whereas the older types will become a useless mass of wire should you pull or turn them in any fashion.

The iron pins act as polepieces, directing and shaping the magnetic field from the magnet below. If you remove these poles, the field changes greatly, dropping the overall volume due to the now increased distance from the strings to magnetic elements and changing the tone greatly. However, the tone change is entirely subjective; only you can decide if it sounds better or worse to you.

[kiramdear]

Thanks, John, that's interesting. That's what I was wondering about the sound. It seems like an unnecessary risk that I might ruin my sound for what seems a cosmetic concern. Has anyone done this that can comment on the practice?

[johnallg]

While I have done this for John B. on guitar 12k higains to be used for bass (pulling the nails, inserting set screws, putting on toaster covers), I did not notice any tonal change other than the differences encountered when pickups are moved closer or further away from the strings. Changing from the nails to alnico5 rods changed the tone like changing from a higain to a toaster, remembering the 11.4k (hg) to 7.4k (toaster) difference in windings in that change or tone mix. And if you are going to make these higain changes, do it to a bass neck higain (use 5/16" diameter magnets), or a guitar neck higain (use 1/4" diameter magnets) as you will hit copper windings on either bass or guitar bridge pickups. If only unbuttoning, set screws were 10-32 (#21 drill) or if you can only find 10-24 (#25 drill), will work.

[kiramdear]

Thanks, John. That's interesting. If I was tempted to do it, it would not be just for appearance as I'm not really that fussy in that way about my gear, beyond "looks pretty" or "looks ugly".
But the idea to substitute magnets and gain a toaster effect tonally is very intriguing indeed. I have considered swapping out just the neck pickup for a toaster to gain some "jangle and chime".

[johnhall]

Well, you did it the right way, John, putting the set screws in to partially offset the removal of the pins.

However, an even better way is to cut off the heads of the polepieces with flush-cutters and use a Dremel to flatten things out. The reason is that the drive pins are intentionally very poor quality steel, i.e. high in iron content, while the typical set screw is going to be fairly well hardened steel with poor magnetic properties.

[johnallg]

John, with trying to keep the ridges on the coil form from getting all marred up, I elected to use the set screws. With a dremel and my ability, I do not think it would look too good in the end. But you sparked an idea...

[johnhall]

I don't know what your idea is but if you drilled a smooth hole in the area where it's now threaded and dropped in a piece of white iron rod or wire instead- perhaps some superglue to hold it- you'd probably have a pickup that's better than the original. That's a theory anyway.

[kiramdear]

Old iron, huh? I've got these hand-forged nails that i salvaged out of my wooden boat during restoration. They're the right size for some very rustic looking pole pieces, and the iron has got to be old, good for the sound, eh?

[johnallg]

I don't know what your idea is but if you drilled a smooth hole in the area where it's now threaded and dropped in a piece of white iron rod or wire instead- perhaps some superglue to hold it- you'd probably have a pickup that's better than the original. That's a theory anyway.

That is where my thoughts were going....

Oh, and Kira, it depends on what they are made out of, the iron to carbon ratio in the steel.

[kiramdear]

Oh, and Kira, it depends on what they are made out of, the iron to carbon ratio in the steel.

I dunno about that, but they sure stick fast to a magnet. I think they'd look great, in an archeological sort of way. Hand forged, I've got about 30 of them. I'm guessing the material is pretty unsophisticated.

[johnallg]

Well, get a spare pickup, take a single razor and cut the magnet off, press out the existing nails, then cut your nails to length and press in, superglue the magnet back on, and see what you get. If they stick really good to a magnet, they should channel flux lines decently. Then let us know what you think, of course!

With the heads on those nails, you'd get a goth-like look.

[kiramdear]

That's the trouble, I'd have to come up with a whole nuther finish to match 'em. This is all fun speculation and curiosity, of course.
But to get a more toaster-y sound from a hi-gain, hmm, my mind can't leave it alone.
In any case, I'd want to experiment on a loose pickup and not risk messing up my rusty trusties.
Finish design is more up my alley, though. I feel a new design project coming on.

[johnallg]

A high gain toasty, huh? Use a neck guitar high gain, remove the magnet, press out the nails, chase the holes with a 1/4" drill, get 1/4" x 3/4" alnico5 rods, glue them in, and get a toaster cover - you have an 11.4k-12k toaster.

http://www.magnetsource.com/Solutions_P ... lnico.html $30 minimum last time I ordered.

[jps]

That's the trouble, I'd have to come up with a whole nuther finish to match 'em. This is all fun speculation and curiosity, of course.
But to get a more toaster-y sound from a hi-gain, hmm, my mind can't leave it alone.
In any case, I'd want to experiment on a loose pickup and not risk messing up my rusty trusties.
Finish design is more up my alley, though. I feel a new design project coming on.

I like Finnish designs.