Cold Weather: Time Delay on opening the case.

[dustymurphy]

I know this has been covered over and over, but I couldn't find any information related to quite what I need to know. I thought this would be the best place for my questions.

First off, at what temperature does it become necessary to leave it in the case while the temperature acclimates? My 660/12 ships from POTR today (after a three year wait) and I want to make sure that I do everything right so that I don't cause any finish damage. Depending on the day that it gets here, our "Futurecast" on television said it could be anywhere from 40 to the mid-50's.

My other question is, at what point do I open the shipping box, and then at what point do I open the case? Is it safe to open the case after it comes out of the box, or should I wait extra time for that too?

Any advice that you could give me would be greatly appreciated.

[admin]

Dusty: Always plan for the unexpected and the unknown during transit. What the weather is like at the time of arrival is one thing but where your instrument has been on route is another.

You can find one of a number of threads here.

Ideally you want your instrument to have adapted gradually to its new environment and at room temperature before opening. Waiting 48 hours seems to work best under the very cold conditions in which the instrument may have been stored below freezing. I would bring it in and let it warm up gradually in the box for 8 hours and then in its UNOPENED case for the balance of the 48 hours before opening. This may be excessive in your case, but it cannot hurt.

[dustymurphy]

Thank you Peter, I appreciate that very much. I hadn't even given thought to what the conditions the case had traveled in would be like. I agree with waiting for the full 48. I know it's going to be hard, but what's another two days when it insures my guitar's finish. To me, it would be so much worse to wait these three years and have a terrible imperfection than it would be to wait all this time and have to wait another two days to insure that it'll be as perfect as it deserves to be.

Here's another question I have, and there may be no "correct" answer for it. My living room is warmer than the rest of my house because of our fireplace, so would I do best to set the box and case in the living room (but obviously not near the fireplace) or in my guest room where it's quite a bit cooler?

My guest room is the coldest room in the house and runs between 65 and 70 this time of year, whereas my living room runs right around 72-77 all the time, but on an especially cold night it could get as warm as maybe 82 or 83. (We use the fireplace to keep the whole downstairs area and the bedroom on the other side of the living room wall warm and run propane through the rest of house on baseboard heaters.)

I tend to do most of my playing in the living room and that's kind of our central meeting area and where we all hang out. But if it's better for the guitar, I'll stick in whichever room. Also, my bed tends to run between 70 and 75, as it's next to the living room wall, so that's an option as well. I realize it's only a difference of a few degrees, but I was worried as to what the fireplace's heat might do.

Again, any advice is appreciated, and thank you again Peter, that was most helpful.

[bitzerguy]

I would suggest avoiding the fireplace room. When operating, the humidity levels in that room will drop quite low, even compared to the rest of the house. This is not good for guitars at any temperature. The cooler room is fine, there should not be any issues going between rooms with a 10 degree difference in temperature.

[dustymurphy]

Excellent, thank you Dean, I appreciate the advice. I live in an old house, and a boiler is our main source of heat, aside from the fireplace, and I don't know it'd due to the boiler or what, but we really don't dry out in the wintertime the way other people do. My aunt has a traditional furnace and fireplace, and the air there is so dry you can feel a difference. I took my J-200 to a local music shop once and asked if I needed to do something in the way of humidification for it, and their repairman checked it out and played it a bit and he said he thought it was great and didn't need any more humidity, so aside from living room, we seem to be doing pretty good. I actually keep my guitars in a spare bedroom that became my 'music room'/'studio' and that's where everything (except a small practice amp) is stored, and it's upstairs and on the other side of the house from the fireplace. That's probably where I'll place it while it acclimates to it's home.

Thanks again for the advice/help Dean, and thanks again to you Peter, you guys really helped me get this figured out and set my mind at ease!

[beatlefreak]

You will gain nothing and hurt nothing by leaving it in the shipping box. The case is adequate protection for keeping the guitar's temperature from rising too quickly. Remove the case from the shipping box, and let sit at room temperature for 24 hours. This is sufficient for all except the most extreme temperature differentials (like from sub-zero to 80º - in which case, let it sit for 48 hours).

I work in the elctronics industry where we routinely do temperature testing. It has been shown time and time again that materials reach within 3º Farenheit of the target temperature in 24 hours.

[Memphis Blue]

If the box shows ANY sign of damage, have the carrier note it...if the box has bad damage or a hole poked in it, you're gonna want to check the guitar right then and there.
At those projected temps, you should not have anything to worry about.
Congrats!

[dustymurphy]

If the box shows ANY sign of damage, have the carrier note it...if the box has bad damage or a hole poked in it, you're gonna want to check the guitar right then and there.
At those projected temps, you should not have anything to worry about.
Congrats!

Good advice, thank you Jeff. I normally don't order guitars over the internet, I've only done a couple before, and they were in the summertime with nothing to worry about. Most of my collecting has been a 'right place, right time' sort of thing, including antique shops, garage sales, and once driving by a house that some people ran out on the rent, and seeing a case in the trash. (It was empty, but there was another case and guitar inside, an SG, the landlord sold me for $50) So I'm really new to this whole wintertime delivery thing, despite being a long-time player.

Thank you too, Kris. I think I'll probably open the box after a few hours, or immediately if there appears to be any damage as Jeff recommends. I can't speak for UPS drives between POTR and me, but my local delivery man is also a guitar player, so he makes extra special care for my guitars when he knows they're coming. When I bought my mandolin, I notified him it was coming, and he bungee-corded the box to the passenger seat in his truck so nothing would bump or slam into it. I know I'm safe with him, it's the other 20 trucks/people/sorting facilities that scare me.

Anyway, thanks again to everyone for the advice. I knew NOTHING about this, and now I know enough to feel more comfortable. If anyone has anything to add or any advice that might be helpful, I'd certainly be glad to know it.

[grazioso]

take the box into the cold guest room and cut the box open on the top ...check if it is very cold inside the box - if not - let the climate do the thing and next day it should be good to come out. if it is frozen bad give it extra day. now let's imagine that you are playing out and on the way to gig it is freezing so it will get cold no matter what - the sooner you'll get used to the fact that the guitar is just a guitar no matter how crazy expensive - better for you.

[8mileshigher]

I can't speak for UPS drivers between POTR and me, but my local delivery man is also a guitar player, so he makes extra special care for my guitars when he knows they're coming. When I bought my mandolin, I notified him it was coming, and he bungee-corded the box to the passenger seat in his truck so nothing would bump or slam into it. I know I'm safe with him, it's the other 20 trucks/people/sorting facilities that scare me.

Well after all the horror stories we have head on this Forum about delivery problems -- that is a refreshing compliment to know your Ric is in such safe and loving hands with your UPS man.
Regards - Rich F.

[dustymurphy]

I agree with you Dusan, it will definitely end up with it's fair share of bumps and dings and scratches, but I'd like to take all the precautions I can until it's unavoidable. I'd like to keep it nice for a least a couple of weeks so i can take pictures with it and induce the drool from all my of guitar player buddies. Instead of Pavlov's Dogs it's Dusty's Rickenbacker!

[beatlefreak]

now let's imagine that you are playing out and on the way to gig it is freezing so it will get cold no matter what

Just as a cold guitar in a case will take 24 hours to reach room temperature, it will also take 24 hours for the core temperature inside a guitar to drop to freezing temperatures - as long as it's in the closed case. The hour or so traveling to a gig will see the guitar's temperature drop some, but not to anywhere near the ambient temperature around the case. Remember that the case is a shell which blocks air and keeps it from moving. It also contains foam and lining which is an effective insulator.

[dustymurphy]

now let's imagine that you are playing out and on the way to gig it is freezing so it will get cold no matter what

Just as a cold guitar in a case will take 24 hours to reach room temperature, it will also take 24 hours for the core temperature inside a guitar to drop to freezing temperatures - as long as it's in the closed case. The hour or so traveling to a gig will see the guitar's temperature drop some, but not to anywhere near the ambient temperature around the case. Remember that the case is a shell which blocks air and keeps it from moving. It also contains foam and lining which is an effective insulator.

Good to know. Playing out in the wintertime is a rarity for me. I do a majority of my playing in the summer with it's easy and comfortable. I will occasionally play out in the winter though, so this makes me feel better about all kinds of things, especially taking it to friends houses or goodtime jams around the holidays.

[jingle_jangle]

now let's imagine that you are playing out and on the way to gig it is freezing so it will get cold no matter what

Just as a cold guitar in a case will take 24 hours to reach room temperature, it will also take 24 hours for the core temperature inside a guitar to drop to freezing temperatures - as long as it's in the closed case. The hour or so traveling to a gig will see the guitar's temperature drop some, but not to anywhere near the ambient temperature around the case. Remember that the case is a shell which blocks air and keeps it from moving. It also contains foam and lining which is an effective insulator.

That's it--well said, and in a nutshell. The issue here is the expansion/contraction of the finish with regard to the wooden shell. If everything rises/falls to ambient temperature gradually, no problem. It's sudden thermal shocks that play havoc to a finish, which can expand and contract, but much slower than the wood.

The finish (CV, which bonds better to the color coats than the wood does...) is flexible (actually, the term is "ductile" here, as we're talking about stretching, especially around curves like the neck and heel, where the finish is always the heaviest). But never as ductile as wood itself. Wood is a spongy, fibrous material, and those individual cells are filled with air. Finishing materials have virtually no air to act as cushion and expansion medium.

FYI, because of the nature of a Rick's hand-sprayed finishing method, the finish on and around the heel is usually 3 to 4 times as heavy as anywhere else on a Rickenbacker. I've refinished badly-checked Ricks that have had the heel finish literally flake completely off in large, stiff, curved pieces.

Underneath is raw maple. So a checked finish will absorb dirt through the cracks. Strip one that's been checked for awhile (years, sometimes) and you will see dark spiderweb-like tracks where dirt got in. Usually, however, these can be sanded, or bleached and sanded out

[firstbassman]

I know this has been covered over and over,

Yes, ten-thousand times.




Is this a new instrument? The RIC box says to wait, so make Santa Ana happy.

I guess as the weather gets colder I should do that experiment I mentioned a couple of years ago.