5 string maple fingerboard 4003 questions

[cheyenne]

Veeedddyyyy Interesting................

[johnallg]

No one has mentioned the maple board, but it sure looks factory to me. What is the possibility with the control cavity being totally sprayed and the orange peel effect, combined with the wavy black-meets-maple along the neck that this is a not-so-good respray job?

Jeff, I think your onto something here with the possibility of it being a prototype.

[kssound]

No one has mentioned the maple board, but it sure looks factory to me. What is the possibility with the control cavity being totally sprayed and the orange peel effect, combined with the wavy black-meets-maple along the neck that this is a not-so-good respray job?

Jeff, I think your onto something here with the possibility of it being a prototype.

Ok I'll bite, how in the world would you find out if its really a prototype? I'll post pictures down both sides of the neck for all of your examining eyes
Scooter

[johnallg]

Well, if you've looked the headstock over pretty good and it looks like no hole(s) was(were) filled on the 3 machine side, then it is a 5-er and as Jeff pointed out predates the RIC 5'ers. Also if the pickups look factory and not cobbled together after the fact, RIC made 5 pole higains for the bridge pup on 5 string 4003 basses and yours has a 6 pole pup in the bridge position. Later 4003/5 basses have the toaster as standard.

[kssound]

Well, if you've looked the headstock over pretty good and it looks like no hole(s) was(were) filled on the 3 machine side, then it is a 5-er and as Jeff pointed out predates the RIC 5'ers. Also if the pickups look factory and not cobbled together after the fact, RIC made 5 pole higains for the bridge pup on 5 string 4003 basses and yours has a 6 pole pup in the bridge position. Later 4003/5 basses have the toaster as standard.

Well, there is no evidence that I can see that the headstock has had any modifications.
here's the 5 pole neck pickup.


here is the end of the bridge


and at long last... the sides of the neck starting at the nut on the "B" side.






now down the "G" side starting at the nut again.






Just for good measure, here's the full back including the tips of my toes


Just from my perspective I can see the possibility of the workmanship being a little off if its a prototype. If its a working model or a feasibility study the masking might be a bit less stringent. It could also explain the oddities like the one piece pick guard and the 6 pole neck pickup. I have no idea why they would use a "non standard" wood for the fingerboard.

One question that nags at me is if it is a prototype, how did it end up in my hands? My experience with prototypes is that they end up in a back room, they are destroyed, they end up in somebody's office, or they're given to a preferred customer or supplier. None of these give me a clue how I found it in Wichita in a pawn shop 3 years after it was made.

This has been an emotional ride. Its a prototype, its a custom shop special, its a hacked and butchered once very nice bass. If its a prototype frankly, I think I should let it go to a collector as I want a player Bass. If its valuable, someone that can appreciate it for what it is should have it, not an old no longer active bass player to have in his collection of basses that he plays with once in a while. Especially now when I have the 4 year old twins and play almost exclusively guitar to play songs for them. My 62' epiphone 12 string works very well for that. Ok, just blowing some of the emotional roller coaster here.....
Scooter

[atomic_punk]

Does anyone have any NAMM Photos from 1986? Just found this thread and it is very interesting!

[Ric O'Sound]

...It could also explain the oddities like the one piece pick guard and the 6 pole neck pickup.

Scooter, I think it's already been mentioned in this thread but just to make it clear, all RIC toaster pickups have 6 pole pieces, regardless of whether installed on a guitar or bass. This is not an "oddity". It's the norm.

[kssound]

...It could also explain the oddities like the one piece pick guard and the 6 pole neck pickup.

Scooter, I think it's already been mentioned in this thread but just to make it clear, all RIC toaster pickups have 6 pole pieces, regardless of whether installed on a guitar or bass. This is not an "oddity". It's the norm.

As much as I have loved Rickenbacker bass's and owning 2, I've never spent any time with other knowledgeable Rick lovers and consequently am catching up on the "lingo" of the species. Kinda strange when I think on it as I am a bass player but I've spent most of my tweaking time playing with Gibson guitars. I'm sold on neck thru guitars and have been either building my own or getting Carvin's and getting the electronics rebuilt. I have a sweet Carvin fretless LB70 setup stereo with custom Lollar pickups that Jason built for it. Though I've heard of the Rick "toaster" pickups and the horseshoe pickups, I'm just getting my feet wet on really knowing what all the parts and pieces and options are. Thanks to all of you by the way!

[rickaddict]

Just from my perspective I can see the possibility of the workmanship being a little off if its a prototype. If its a working model or a feasibility study the masking might be a bit less stringent. It could also explain the oddities like the one piece pick guard and the 6 pole neck pickup. I have no idea why they would use a "non standard" wood for the fingerboard.

Rick has used maple for fingerboards. The Redneck, Tuxedo, and Blackstar basses from the late 80's all had maple boards under the paint. So do the early 4004 Cheyennes, Laredos and the Glenn Frey signature models. Just not any 4003's that I know of. But yours is..."special!"

Those new photos of it's neck show what I thought they might...That is, there is fretboard wood grain showing between the neck binding and the Jetglo. That's the way RIC would have done it (as I'm sure you already know). Your first photos weren't very clear and looked like the Jetglo went right up to the neck binding. It still looks like the masking might have wavered a little on the top side of the neck near the body, but that might just be more digital photography shenanigans. Can you feel any ridge between the Jetglo and the fretboard where it was masked? It would be smooth and undetectable to your hands if it came from RIC with that fretboard. Does the line waver in that area, or is it straight?

The 5-pole BRIDGE pickup looks factory to me. Interestingly, it doesn't look quite the same as any 4003S/5 pickup I've ever seen though (which is of course, consistent with the prototype theory). Yours has the old plastic more rectangular, hand-cut bobbin, whereas all of the S/5 pickups I've ever seen have a more dull, more oval, machine-cut bobbin similar to the one used on the re-issue horseshoe pickups.

I think your bass did come from RIC the way that it is.

One question that nags at me is if it is a prototype, how did it end up in my hands? My experience with prototypes is that they end up in a back room, they are destroyed, they end up in somebody's office, or they're given to a preferred customer or supplier. None of these give me a clue how I found it in Wichita in a pawn shop 3 years after it was made.

RIC doesn't necessarily treat their prototype instruments the same way that the auto industry does. Some of them end up in their factory museum, but I've seen quite a few odd instruments that ended up in private hands.

One thing I should have mentioned earlier is...The truss rods on your bass are the old, flat folded-steel type like the rods on your 4001. To adjust them, you don't just turn them and check for results like you would on the new style rods. You have to loosen the nuts, bend the neck to the position you want, and then snug the nuts down. See forumite Joey Vasco's website http://joeysbassnotes.com/ for more detailed truss adjustment instructions.

[rickaddict]

BTW, Scooter...From your photos I don't see any difference between the finish on your bass and the finish on any other mid-80's 4003JG. They usually dull a bit and aren't usually perfect. I don't see the orange peeling that you're talking about, but I will tell you that some of mine have a bit of it.

Check out the headstock on my 4003S/5 MID:

http://rickresource.com/register/user_i ... llsize.jpg

Mine is definitely a RIC factory finish.

[kssound]

BTW, Scooter...From your photos I don't see any difference between the finish on your bass and the finish on any other mid-80's 4003JG. They usually dull a bit and aren't usually perfect. I don't see the orange peeling that you're talking about, but I will tell you that some of mine have a bit of it.

Check out the headstock on my 4003S/5 MID:

http://rickresource.com/register/user_i ... llsize.jpg

Mine is definitely a RIC factory finish.

Mine has less orange peel than yours does actually. I'm just really picky. I used to be a tool and die maker and I used to work for an automotive prototyping company (yes, we made auto show concept cars). I learned to get very picky about my paint work!

[rickaddict]

Mine has less orange peel than yours does actually. I'm just really picky. I used to be a tool and die maker and I used to work for an automotive prototyping company (yes, we made auto show concept cars). I learned to get very picky about my paint work!

I notice imperfections like this, but they don't really bother me.

I'm sure you'd have a lot to talk about with Paul Wilczynski (jingle_jangle...See Curmudgeon section) He used to build auto show concept cars for Mazda (if I got that right). Now he teaches in this field, and does some killer restoration work on Ricks...like this one!

http://rickresource.com/register/viewit ... ine%3Dtrue

[cjj]

The more I look at this one, the more I think it's real...

And the more I wish I had one...

[kssound]

I'm sure you'd have a lot to talk about with Paul Wilczynski (jingle_jangle...See Curmudgeon section) He used to build auto show concept cars for Mazda (if I got that right). Now he teaches in this field, and does some killer restoration work on Ricks...like this one!

http://rickresource.com/register/viewit ... ine%3Dtrue

I can tell from the pictures that the paint is gorgeous! Does the value of RIC's go down like it does on Gibson's if they're re-finished?

[rickaddict]

I can tell from the pictures that the paint is gorgeous! Does the value of RIC's go down like it does on Gibson's if they're re-finished?

That depends on who you ask. If you ask a vintage guitar dealer, they'll tell you that refinishing cuts the value of the instrument in half. Then they'll offer you 1/2 of what it's worth and list it for sale as a factory one-off!

Most re-finished instruments are so poorly executed that they really are worth 1/2 of a factory finish. PW's restorations are factory quality.

Another argument in favor of the value of a PW restored instrument is that he builds (and finishes) Rickenbacker acoustic guitars.

Trying to guess what the value of one of his restored Ricks would be vs. an original one is difficult though because as far as I know...nobody has ever tried to sell one yet.

Mine for instance (my first Rick) won't be for sale until I'm gone, so its value is unimportant to me.