New RIC bass copy

[dog]

+1.

There have been many good points made on this thread, but I can't agree with all of them. I also remember how it felt to be young, lusting after a particular guitar that I could not afford. I remember it well because I am still there. When I was 17, or now that I am 54, I could/can not afford everything I want. And, whether 17 or 54, I don't want a copy of anything. If I can't have the real thing, I don't want anything at all. I am currently "lusting" after a V63JG. If offered a V63 copy at a low price, I would .

IMO, it is just foolish to debate copyright infringement based on someone wanting what they can't afford. I guess it is not illegal to buy a copy that has been illegally manufactured, but that still does not make it right. I guess I am just old fashion and believe that right is right, and wrong is wrong. There is no middle ground.

This whole issue can not be compared to other guitar makers allowing their brands to be stolen. If they didn't care enough to protect their products by fighting the good fight, why should I care? If Ric decides to license a Chinese (or other) copy, so be it. Until they do (Heaven forbid) copies are illegal.

So, go ahead and dump on me for taking a stand. Whether it is copyright infringement, or some other point of established law, I can't become a wishy-washy bleeding heart who cries for someone who can't afford to buy everything they want. Anyway, the last I knew, expensive guitars were luxury items that we reward ourselves with through hard work.

Do I blame anyone who would buy a copy because that is all they can afford? No. After all, you can't blame the drug user who buys stuff on the streets. It's not his fault. The fault lies with the seller who makes the stuff available.

OK. I won't apologize for being a conservative, hard boiled old fart who would rather take a stand, than say what I need to say in order to be popular. Am I taking this way too seriously? Probably.

(now, if I can just get myself to hit the submit button)

[aceonbass]

I agree with you completely Ron. When I was 16 I bought a RIC copy. $285.00 it cost me. I coulda bought a used 4001 for $400.00 if I'd looked, or even a decent used P-bass if I'd cut another lawn or two. When I had the fake, everyone who's opinion mattered to me knew it was fake, so I got no respect there. When I got my first real 4001 in '78, I was da shiznet! Even my girlfriends mom thought it was "real purdy". Many many people these days think that it's their right to steal music from it's rightful owners, so it's no surprise that people would be fine with someone else stealing a guitar design if it would save them money. On a larger scale, the desire for the lowest price no matter what is a big part of current economic problems. Lest I be considered an old conservative, be advised that there is very little conservative about me.

[dog]

Thanks Dane. You make a good point about stealing music. I guess that part of the point I was trying to get across was that stealing is stealing, no matter what the circumstances are. It seems as though some in our society believe that stealing is OK, just as long as you don't get caught.

I will stop with comments now and just let sleeping dogs lie. Anyway, we are not talking about hungry kids sleeping on the streets. That situation softens the heart of even an old fart like me.

[tallpat1]

I remember as a 16 yr old a local music store had a Univox copy of a 4001s MG that was half the price of a rick. If my memory serves me The Ric was $ 400 w/ OHSC. the Univox was 199 w/ hsc. I played both and thought to myself I would rather have the real Ric. however the univox was not too bad for a copy.

[mad_dog_cole]

I'd buy one like a shot, that or a Rockinbetter. But even then not at the price that they're going for new, I was told by one shop that
"the first Rockinbetters were Chinese hence the intial lower prices, not that they're Korean they're better made so the price is up"
- what a crock - they got popular so the price went up, that's all.

I want a copy for the body-shape, decent-ish neck (fixed - not Kay-a-like bolted) & colour and that's all I want it for. The pickups, scratchplate & electrics would be immediately whipped out for custom part replacement just to see what happened.

Do that to a real Ric & the men in white coats would come and tie me up!

[bob_atherton]

RIC copy basses rock !!!

(Just kidding, no really. If one can't afford a Ric then get something else. In the late 60's I wanted a Rickenbacker but just didn't have the money. I bought a Shaftesbury Tele bass copy. It was a good bass and I played it till 1974 when I bought my fist Rick 4001. The Shaftesbury got me into playing bass, earning money playing a few gigs and even my first time in a recording studio. The Rick came along and it was all the better for the wait.

I would have thought if money was tight but someone wanted a 'proper' bass then a MIM Fender Jazz would fit the bill)

[jingle_jangle]

I'd buy one like a shot, that or a Rockinbetter. But even then not at the price that they're going for new, I was told by one shop that
"the first Rockinbetters were Chinese hence the intial lower prices, not that they're Korean they're better made so the price is up"
- what a crock - they got popular so the price went up, that's all.

I want a copy for the body-shape, decent-ish neck (fixed - not Kay-a-like bolted) & colour and that's all I want it for. The pickups, scratchplate & electrics would be immediately whipped out for custom part replacement just to see what happened.

Do that to a real Ric & the men in white coats would come and tie me up!

This is yet another post that underlines the need for a sticky explaining why RIC's intellectual property is THEIRS and why it is necessary for them to enforce their ownership.

"I guess it is not illegal to buy a copy that has been illegally manufactured, but that still does not make it right."

Actually, Ron, it is, depending upon the country and jurisdiction. Here in the USA, it's trading in counterfeit goods.

[wayang]

At the age of 18, I bought my first 4001 new in 1974, after working all summer at a minimum wage job (that's $2.10/hr., for those of you too young to remember)...about 215 hours of work, by my reckoning. I cannot begin to tell you what my dad, the retired Master Sargeant, thought of this...everything I made that summer was supposed to have helped pay for my Sophomore year at Arizona State. A year later, I had dropped out of school and worked enough to pay for my second 4001, a '74 fretless (that one I still have). The band I was in was veering into more and more adventurous stuff, including a lot of Genesis. I found I could really make use of a Ric 12-string if I could get my hands on one, but of course I was now dropping money on amps, new roundwound strings every time I turned around, etc. On a 'fact-finding' trip to the Chicago Store in Tucson (check it out if you're ever down there...they're still in business), I found a Japanese copy of just the guitar I needed...looked like Mike Rutherford himself had just hung it on the wall. It was dusty with nearly rusted strings on it, and in nearly unplayable shape, but the tag said $150...I knew I wouldn't be able to afford the real thing for awhile, even if I could find one, so I bought it. Took it home, took it apart and cleaned and polished it thoroughly until it looked brand new, and strung it up with a new set of strings. As I tuned it up, the neck began to bow to the point of looking like I was ready for archery class. I began to realize I had $150 worth of unplayable junk...it looked like the real thing, but it wasn't ever going to do the job. Kind of heartbreaking, but a valuable lesson. A couple of years later in Alaska, I took a bunch of my pipeline earnings to Santa Ana and bought the second 4080/12 Ric made. Voila: the band could now play Cinema Show...

All these years later, the 4080's been sold, but it did the trick back when it needed to. I miss having that 12, but I'll get another one, maybe someday...I still have the Japanese copy, but I stripped it down and painted it pink, and now it hangs on the wall above our bathroom door: Unplayable Art! Looks cool, anyway...

My point is this: copyright infringement and legality aside, do yourself a favor and wait until you can afford the real thing...something that doesn't just look like a guitar, but actually is a guitar...

[mad_dog_cole]

another post that underlines the need for a sticky explaining why RIC's intellectual property is THEIRS and why it is necessary for them to enforce their ownership

It DOES??? Why?
If it's just the shape I want and I know a craftsman who can make pickups & circuits that will improve it vastly - and in keeping with it's style but yet make it look even LESS like a genuine Rick how does that affect Rick at all?

[wayang]

Uh oh, here we go again...

Look, if illegal activity is something you have no fear of, just deal drugs for awhile until you can afford a real guitar.

It's Win/Win!

[jingle_jangle]

another post that underlines the need for a sticky explaining why RIC's intellectual property is THEIRS and why it is necessary for them to enforce their ownership

It DOES??? Why?
If it's just the shape I want and I know a craftsman who can make pickups & circuits that will improve it vastly - and in keeping with it's style but yet make it look even LESS like a genuine Rick how does that affect Rick at all?

Stu, nothing personal was meant in my comments, but if you've got the time, use the SEARCH function on this site and read the hundreds of posts dealing with this issue, and you'll see the controversy surrounding it, and in the end will understand it better.

[aceonbass]

Much as I love RICs, if I were having a guitar built from scratch, I'd design something different. Schecter's Stargazer bass and guitar line is a good example of what you can do without infringing on RIC's trademarks, yet these instruments are clearly influenced by the 4000 series body shape. If your guitar builder takes money for copying a RIC guitar, he's stealing, plain and simple. Even if he builds it for free, somewhere down the line this instrument could end up for sale somewhere. If it sells, it will be because it copied protected "trade dress" belonging to someone else. If John Hall saw your instrument for sale he's be required to act on it in order to protect his rights, or lose them. As it is, RIC usually just closes down infringing auctions on Ebay rather than take everyone to court. When RIC has sued for trademark infringement, they've always won.

[mad_dog_cole]

Is there anyone here SERIOUSLY suggesting that to satisfy my curiosity that how I imagine a bass appears in my minds eye is how it would look & sound in real life, that I should blow £1200+ on a real Rick to adapt, just to keep you guys & Rick happy?

Or to put it another way; I have a - as previously touched on - John Birch custom built bass. It's essentailly an EB3 - whisper it quietly - a Gibson!! . It's a gorgeously perfect tobacco sunburst which Gibson then didn't do, ............... (Btw - don't you think Rick's look just GORGEOUS in tobacco sunburst - ANY Rick???)
...............it's all maple (ditto) it's active (ditto) it has very high output pups & to cap it all it has an onboard OD effect. There are approximately 4 or 5 of them in the world.
I've had a couple of EB3's over the years & my bass is FAR far better than either of those or any other I've seen. BUt I do freely admit it's essentially an EB3 copy - BUT ....... a superior copy. IF Gibson had been as anal about their designs as Rick are in the US then my bass wouldn't exist - and that would be a crime against music - rather than a crime against copyright infringement.

It would be a different story if I intended to doctor the copy to LOOK like a Rick - and defrauding an unsuspecting punter OR that I thought my idea could even be better than an original Rick, of course that would be wrong. There is such a concept as keeping a sense of proportion in all things.

Anyway - do these (thread) "New RIC bass copies" have a deal in the UK does anyone know???

[wayang]

Easy, now, Stu...I'm SERIOUSLY suggesting you do whatever you want, and you have my full permission not to consider my happiness in the matter. Flaunting the law is an individual's choice, and when it comes to some things, I'm all in favor of it. But please: no winge-ing!

In addition, I couldn't consider the postulated non-existence of your Gibson copy to be 'a crime against music'...not on a par with American Idol, anyway...

[mad_dog_cole]

..not on a par with American Idol, anyway...

.......... and you think WE have it bad over here ???? At least we managed to get Cowell over your side for half the year!!! Now that is a win situation!