Vintage 1963 Rickenbacker Horseshoe ?? MAYBE NOT !

[sashua]

Thank you Jeff,
This thread has become such a witch hunt. I am selling these on E-Bay with a starting bid of $895. The re-issues sell between $600-$1000 on average and they get scarfed up the minute they come to market. Mine are made from vintage parts. I am now going to go over to the E-Bay ad and change the wording from "refurbished" to "refurbished from vintage parts" as this, as far as I can tell, was my only mistaken transgression.

Now let's look at this for a minute. I found the vintage parts myself from past E-Bay auctions and lap steels and I have the provenance of such documented quite clearly. Dale supplied the bobbins and told me that they were vintage.

You all seem to feed upon people that can't defend themselves like carrion birds. If I said Dale was a manager back in the 60's it is because that was my recollection. Perhaps he was just an employee in the 70's. The fact remains that the majority of us respect him here (apart from John Hall - but that is an issue I know little about).

Let's play Spartacus for a moment....those of you that think Dale Fortune is not an incredibly skilled luthier with a deep knowledge of Rickenbackers please come forward and post. Come on now....don't hide behind innuendo, be bold!

Many here respect the man as I do and trust his words. The bobbins are genuine as far as I am concerned and that's all I have to say on the matter. Senor Gallo feels these pickups are worth $500, assembled from vintage 60's parts and in mint and impeccable looking and playing order. He is entitled to his opinion.

As for the rest of you senator McCarthys...feel free to refrain from bidding as I may just cancel your bid. Trust Vincent and wait for the next one for $500.

-Russ

[jps]

The way I see it, Russ' error was in the wording of the auction, not the item itself. When I spoke with him he told me these were assembled from early '60s parts. I have no issue with this as, stated above, try finding a whole unmolested '60s horseshoe pickup. I am satisfied with the looks, tone and vibe of this rebuilt/built-up HS pickup. The price is fair, try and find the parts and make one for yourself! Russ provided this service; he and Dale went through the motions to make these pickups available.

These aren't the droids you're looking for...

[ajish4]

The way I see it is that Russ' error was in the wording of the auction, not the item itself. When I spoke with him he told me these were assembled from early '60s parts. I have no issue with this as, stated above, try finding a whole unmolested '60s horseshoe pickup. I am satisfied with the looks, tone and vibe of this rebuilt/built-up HS pickup. The price is fair, try and find the parts and make one for yourself! Russ provided this service; he and Dale went through the motions to make these pickups available.

These aren't the droids you're looking for...

I don't have a dog in this race, but IF in fact these were made from Lap Steel shoes, that should have been mentioned in the auction. I've seen Ebay auctions where they list the HS but that it CAME from a Lap Steel, and they command a much lower price even if the bobbin was custom wound. I'd like to know the whole story if I was a potential buyer.

I don't have a problem with anyone making a buck for their time and effort, but just that the total picture should be clear.

[wints]

Russ,

This thread is many things, but not a witch hunt. Simply put, it's about transparency. The issue is full disclosure of where the components of this pick up came from and the way they were assembled. If, in this case, one cannot determine the year exactly, that should be stated as such in the listing. Dale Fortune made these pick ups, but didn't write the listing...

Your wording on the original auction listing was ambiguous to say the least, even if unintentional, and I'm not the only one who thought so.

[vincent_gallo]

All the shoes that were made at the time were interchangable . They were used on lapsteeles , guitars and basses The only thing different were the bobbins and pole piece designations

Regarding the entire Rickenbacker production of magnetic shoes it is not true that they are all 100% the same. Throughout production they have changed size, hole patterns etc. Still, that is not the issue presented here. The purpose of this thread was to add insight to pickups presented for sale on eBay that I felt were not fully or accurately described. In other words, I felt the way the ad was written was misleading and did not reflect the truth about the item for sale. I informed the seller before he posted the ad that he might have not understood what he was selling and gave him information as to why it was not correctly described. As he is a member here posting photos of his pickups with background info would have allowed insight to be shared before the pickup was sold or represented for sale and would have helped buyers understand what was for sale. He chose instead to go forward and list and sell as he did and so i offered my view.

. Now , Try to find an original designated vintage horseshoe bass pick up !Good Luck !

With diligence they can be found though I believe they only belong on basses of the same vintage

Most of us resort to purchasing V63 or V64 horse shoes. I've seen them sell lately for 1K . And they are not even real horse shoes ! They are as fake as it gets .non magnetized paperwieghts. So wich one would you rather pay for ? Who's really fooling who ????!!!

Most of us? Whether a reissue is worth more or less than a parts assembled pickup is not my concern and should not be part of this debate. For the record, since I do not modify or dress up my instruments I can not answer your question as to which pickup I would rather pay for as I have no use for either. With that said, the reissue will always be an original replacement part for basses that came with those stock.

[gareth]

Actually, Vincent and Dale are both right IMHO. We're just really arguing about the descriptions. It's a good pickup for a period matched sound, but not for a correct restoration. I don't really feel that there's any duplicity involved. Vincent has a more detailed knowledge of the minutiae of the various designs, which gives him a greater insight into the piece. It's a bit like how I can recite you the foundry stamp numbers on every bolt that is correct for Harley Davidsons from 1936-1948. I see a lot of pieces offered as real restoration pieces in that market that are correct for a period working bike, but just not correct for a restoration. Very rarely is there a deliberate fraud involved. It's just that most people don't possess the borderline autism required to delve that deeply into the details

That's why I liked the Lollar horseshoe I had (now long gone to a 4001V63). A good fit, well made, and the correct sound. I can understand why John Hall had to lower the boom on him though. I wish there was some way he could be allowed to make them for RIC under license, but then, I'm full of good ideas like that. You know, ones that require other people to do all the work.