Experiment with 4004

[johnallg]

Well, I concur with the others - 1, 4, and 5. 1 is more defined, 4 is not as "burpy" as 3, and 6 is too distorted, though 5 sounds more 4003-like. Interestingly my choices were the same in the mix clips.

What do I win???

[dcr]

As it happens, clips 2, 3, & 6 were played with a new 4004L. Clips 1, 4, & 5 were played on an old Yamaha. Everything else was the same, including EQ & even strings.

[kojakcurtis]

What was the purpose?

[blueflamerick]

It's interesting that most of you didn't prefer the sound of the 4004. Just goes to show you that it sounds completely different than the 4001/3 we're all used to.

[cassius987]

What was the purpose?

Dan was trying to figure out what he liked better by picking other people's brains in a blind "taste test". He wasn't basing his judgement on others but I think he wanted multiple opinions besides his own to value his 4004.

[rickenbrother]

As it happens, clips 2, 3, & 6 were played with a new 4004L. Clips 1, 4, & 5 were played on an old Yamaha. Everything else was the same, including EQ & even strings.

Could mean you should eq the 4004L differently than the Yamaha.

[rickaddict]

Thanks for this comparison. Pretty cool!

It sounds to me like this 4004 could benefit from being re-wired VVT or VT VT stack pots.

I also prefer tracks 1, 4 & 5.

Tell you what though...I'll bet if the same songs were recorded using a 4003 and rolling off the volume a bit on the neck pickup...BOOM!!! ...Pure magic, and our new winner!

[dcr]

Could mean you should eq the 4004L differently than the Yamaha.

Yep, it could mean that. However, the EQ settings I used were actually the ones I thought sounded best for each instrument on each song; it just happened that they were the same settings. (The EQ was pretty minimal anyway; I just used an NE-1 box, which is basically a single-band parametric for midrange. Simple, but a very useful little box. Both basses sounded better with it, to my ears, and so does my 4003.)

I've found that some will prefer one & some will prefer the other. Well, there you go.

[dcr]

Thanks for this comparison. Pretty cool!

Tell you what though...I'll bet if the same songs were recorded using a 4003 and rolling off the volume a bit on the neck pickup...BOOM!!! ...Pure magic, and our new winner!

Well, I live to serve.

Here's a new comparison: 4003 vs not-4003. There are two main questions. (a) Which one will more people prefer? I think the 4003 is going to be tough to beat. (b) Will there be a clear, far & away winner? (I.e., will there be a big "boom!"?) You tell me.

The first pair: D'Addario Pro Steels, pick style. 4003 has neck pickup rolled off to "sweet spot." No EQ.
Clip 7:
http://hydqcq.bay.livefilestore.com/y1p ... 3?download
Clip 8:
http://hydqcq.bay.livefilestore.com/y1p ... 3?download

The second pair: D'Addario Pro Steels, finger style. 4003 has neck pickup rolled off to "sweet spot." No EQ.
Clip 9:
http://hydqcq.bay.livefilestore.com/y1p ... 3?download
Clip 10:
http://hydqcq.bay.livefilestore.com/y1p ... 3?download

The third pair: TI Jazz Flats, pick style. 4003 has both pickups full up. No EQ.
Clip 11:
http://hydqcq.bay.livefilestore.com/y1p ... 3?download
Clip 12:
http://hydqcq.bay.livefilestore.com/y1p ... 3?download

What do you think?

[rickfan60]

I am stating the obvious here but the 4004 is a different model - not a 4003 A few years ago I put my 4004C and 2030 away because they did not sound like my 4001/3s. My expectation of a Rickenbacker was that it should sound like a Rickenbacker (whatever that means). It wasn't until I accepted the fact they are intentionally different that I began to appreciate them for what they are. Comparisons between the models are inevitable but if you go in with expectations of a particular sound you will probably be disappointed. Don't think of the 4004 as a Rickenbacker but simply as another bass. If you give it a level playing field you just might be surprised by how much you like it despite the fact it is not a 4003.

[incubus2432]

I am stating the obvious here but the 4004 is a different model - not a 4003 A few years ago I put my 4004C and 2030 away because they did not sound like my 4001/3s. My expectation of a Rickenbacker was that it should sound like a Rickenbacker (whatever that means). It wasn't until I accepted the fact they are intentionally different that I began to appreciate them for what they are. Comparisons between the models are inevitable but if you go in with expectations of a particular sound you will probably be disappointed. Don't think of the 4004 as a Rickenbacker but simply as another bass. If you give it a level playing field you just might be surprised by how much you like it despite the fact it is not a 4003.

Exactly!

Many times when they are compared they are used on an amp with settings that benefit the 4001/4003 and that leaves the 4004 sounding like mud. With the right setup and amp tweaking the 4004 can pull off a pretty good 4001/4003 impersonation but that isn't where it shines best (IMO). It's an evolution of the Ric bass and has it's own strengths.....hum-free, clarity, stronger lows and streamlined aesthetics/hardware/electronics are an attraction for some and drive others away.

[dcr]

I agree too. The 4003 & 4004 are apples & oranges. If you expect an orange to taste like an apple, you'll be disappointed. On its own terms, though, it can be perfectly wonderful. Similarly, you have to approach the 4004 with an open mind.

But I'm not sure how that bears on the current thread. For one thing, people can still have preferences between apples & oranges. For another, these recordings are pretty much straight-wire, bass to recorder (tracks 7-12 are exactly that). And lastly, what makes us so sure that the most recent tracks are comparing 4003 & 4004 in the first place?

The claim was made by someone else that the 4003 would be the obvious winner here. No one complained when the claim was made. So why don't we check that claim? Here's a chance.

[cassius987]

They sound fairly similar--one just has a little more fuzz and bottom than the other. I like 1 & 2 equally (seriously can't decide); I think I prefer 3 a bit over 4; 5 & 6 I also like equally.

Contrary to what others have said I have found that the 4003 is not an "instant dial-in"--it's probably one of the hardest basses to dial in that there is because there are so many possible sounds.

[rickaddict]

I am stating the obvious here but the 4004 is a different model - not a 4003 A few years ago I put my 4004C and 2030 away because they did not sound like my 4001/3s. My expectation of a Rickenbacker was that it should sound like a Rickenbacker (whatever that means). It wasn't until I accepted the fact they are intentionally different that I began to appreciate them for what they are. Comparisons between the models are inevitable but if you go in with expectations of a particular sound you will probably be disappointed. Don't think of the 4004 as a Rickenbacker but simply as another bass. If you give it a level playing field you just might be surprised by how much you like it despite the fact it is not a 4003.

Exactly!

Many times when they are compared they are used on an amp with settings that benefit the 4001/4003 and that leaves the 4004 sounding like mud. With the right setup and amp tweaking the 4004 can pull off a pretty good 4001/4003 impersonation but that isn't where it shines best (IMO). It's an evolution of the Ric bass and has it's own strengths.....hum-free, clarity, stronger lows and streamlined aesthetics/hardware/electronics are an attraction for some and drive others away.

I know, I know...Apples and oranges. But I'm just sayin'...Here we had a "blind taste test" between a 4004 and a Yamaha (on a Rickenbacker forum, no less) and everyone who answered (myself included) preferred the Yamaha. So my point is...Would we have had the same results if the blind taste test had been between the Yamaha and a 4003/4001?

I'd bet not, but admittedly...I'm biased.

Thanks for posting the new clips, Dan. I'll have to give 'em a listen when I'm not at work!

[cheyenne]

I'll probably get flamed for this, but look at like this, I Ricks were Fenders, the 4001/3 would be more within the Jazz bass realm, where the 4004 would be more of a Pbass.

I think the 4004 really sounds Rickish, but with Pbass attitude and punch.