Studio Canumbrum...er ...Issue

[sluggo]

Hey all....Short version. I have an 09 4003MG and an 05 4003FG Laredo. Anyhow, took the 04 into the studio this week. Brought it in lieu of the 03 due to the "Clangy-ness" that can be an issue. The Laredo has a boatload of low end without the super highs from the high output p/u's of the 4003's. Seemed like the obvious/perfect choice. I really thought this would be the best studio bass n the world! However, we could not anything but a muddy tone out of it...no highs....no mids....nadda. EQ was adjusted.....levels adjusted....nuthin but mud. I play a bit heavy handed, but even purposely playing soft, no luck. This bass sounds so sweet live! I have been playing for over 20 years with a few hundred studio hours, so I have a descent working knowledge of how things go when tracking. Anybody else have this issue? Or is it simply user error?? Please be gentle.....

[paul_yan]

Welcome to the forum, Douglas.

Did you record the Laredo direct (Bass>DI>Mic-Pre>Recorder) or amplified (Bass>Amp>Mic>Mic>Mic-Pre>Recorder)? Usually, the 4004 Laredo should have more presence in the mid-hi and high end than the 4004 Cii, but of course less than the 4001 or 4003. Let us know more details and maybe we can find out the reason why your Laredo sounded muddy.

Some music needs the 4003 while some needs the 4004, IMHO. Bring them both to the studio next time if you can. You never know which will be the day's champ.

[VRICKY63]

Maybe set up your live rig and record that with a good mic and pre ? My 4004Cii records beautifully through an ART SGX pre amp. Sounds like you could use some vacuum tube help.

[dog]

Douglas, I wish I could speak of the 4004, but I can't. What I did notice at our last session was my choice of strings on my 4003 must change. I keep TI flats on my bass, and it sounds great live. But I did not like the tone I got while recording. I prefer well defined notes that are crisp and clean, but found that no amount of eq could eliminate the mud on the bottom when using flats. For me, the answer will be to put stainless (DR high beams) back on and give it a go.

I realize that this is not exactly what you were asking, but have found that even a string choice is important when looking for a specific sound. How much more when selecting the bass to use. The advice to take both with you is maybe the best.

[rickenbrother]

I've recorded my 4004Cii and 4004Cii/5 direct, using only a Samsamp Bass DI and got a really nice, very Rick tone from them. D'Addario EXL-170 strings installed.

[sluggo]

I went directly into the board. The engineer has all the plug-ins you could ever wish for. I was thinking of at least bringing my preamp in and recording through that. I will also bring the 4003....just in case. Thanks for all the advice!! Nice to see an informed group of folks around!!

[teb]

If your bass sounds like you want it to sound through your amp, but doesn't sound right when run straight into the board, then the decision is pretty much a no-brainer. Use your amp, make sure you have a bright enough signal that they have something to tweak a bit and have them mic the amp. A lot of engineers like to run things direct whenever possible, mostly because it's less work for them. You are the bass player, not the engineer. Present him with the sound you want, mic the amp and then fiddle as needed with the mic and EQ until you get a signal that you both think works well. With a good board and a stack of gizmos, you can come up with all sorts of varied bass tones, but it's often extremely difficult, if not impossible, to make it sound like your amp and speaker cabinet (which is usually the sound you are actually trying to achieve). There is just some sort of resonance and tone that comes from being able to move air that's hard to duplicate by just moving electrical impulses without actually making some sound. Sometimes the engineer will resist a bit at first, but by the second session they start to understand what you want and why you want it and it becomes part of the normal procedure.

[sluggo]

Excellent advice teb. Sometimes I think we loose track of who is paying whom!

[jdogric12]

All the plug-ins in the world can't replace a good preamp. I use the relatively cheap Focusrite TrakMaster and get great results.

[stanislav]

When I recorded my 4004L last year, the tone was a little muddy. I tried all of the plug-ins but still wasn't happy. I ran it through a preamp and it sounded great. Plug-in emulators of amps don't always give me the sound I like, I think you do really need the tubes. I don't even have an expensive bass preamp, it's a Behringer with a 12AX7 tube. Let the tube warm up for about 20 minutes.

[teb]

A preamp might certainly help. Whenever I run a bass straight-in for home stuff, I run it through the pre-amp section of my Traynor YBA200 head and it's much better than right into the board (same with my 12-strings). On the other hand, I don't think you have to have tubes to get the sound. If I really want clean, whether at home or in a studio, I'll mic the cabinet, push some air and be certain I'm happy with the tone before it ever even gets to the mic. Case in point: this is my old fretless Frankenstein Gibson, stereo-wired with its Gibson mudbucker at the neck and a P-Bass pickup at the bridge. The amp head is a 1972 solid-state Acoustic 140. The speaker was my old Sunn 118VH folded horn with the mic placed about two feet in front of it. No tubes, but seriously mud-free.

http://webpages.charter.net/tbradshaw/M ... %20God.mp3

[cassius987]

I really like the Tech 21 VT Bass used as a pre. It's very versatile--I mean very.

[jps]

I really like the Tech 21 VT Bass used as a pre. It's very versatile--I mean very.

+1

[VRICKY63]

Im not a religious person but that is a nice song Todd.

[teb]

Neither am I, but the first time Jim played it for us, we knew we had to do it. Personally, I'd sign a deal with the devil to be able to sing like that.