Hey guys, this is my first post here. The guys at talkbass.com directed me here with my question and informed me that I would some helpful insight. I am considering purchasing a supposed Rickenbacker 4001 from a local seller. The bass has undergone many mods and is definitely a project bass which I plan to restore if i purchase it. According to the seller this is the story behind the bass:
"I don't know the year (the jackplate with the serial number was removed before I got it)...When I got the bass, it had seen better days. It had spent the 80's bouncing around in every punk band in Arkansas, and had some (primarily) cosmetic damage. The neck is straight and thru-the-body. Body and neck are both bound. All parts are original save the tuners, the pickguard, and the bridge (the original was wood)
At some point someone ripped out the neck pickup (and corresponding electronics) and put on new tuners. I refinished the wood, cut a new pickguard, and put on new bridge (the original was wood)... essentially everything I was comfortable doing without professional knowledge/help."
He contacted me again today and informed me he now believes it is an early 70's 4001. Here are some pictures he provided me of the bass:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/paulandash ... 2859/show/
Any input/advice would be greatly appreciated. I was already informed on talkbass that I should:
inspect for the following
1. Check under the TRC for 2 rods
2. Check under pickguard for RIC hand writing (4001 - etc..)
3. Check for the binding to NOT be continuous at the tailpeice.
Is this a Legit Ric 4001?
Moderators: rickenbrother, ajish4
Re: Is this a Legit Ric 4001?
Check out joeysbassnotes.com, he has a great section on recognizing copies.
From the looks of the pics, it looks fairly legit, but it's sometimes hard to tell. The fretboard looks a bit dark, but that could be the pictures. The stripe might be a tad wide too, but it's sometimes hard to tell in pics. A 4001 should have 4 knobs and 2 pickups, but that could have been changed too. Also, the writing under the pickguard is somewhat inconclusive, it doesn't always say anything meaningful, the shape of the route tells a lot though.
From the looks of the pics, it looks fairly legit, but it's sometimes hard to tell. The fretboard looks a bit dark, but that could be the pictures. The stripe might be a tad wide too, but it's sometimes hard to tell in pics. A 4001 should have 4 knobs and 2 pickups, but that could have been changed too. Also, the writing under the pickguard is somewhat inconclusive, it doesn't always say anything meaningful, the shape of the route tells a lot though.
I have NO idea what to do with those skinny stringed things... I'm just a bass player...
Re: Is this a Legit Ric 4001?
hmm...the configuration of parts/features doesn't make sense in the time-line...
a gap-tooth tailpiece w/ non-checkered binding and no MOPFWI?
the bridge saddles don't match that era of tailpiece.
the TRC screws should be Philips head, i believe.
the pickguard is obviously non-original and i'm betting there is a neck pup cavity under there.
does this mean it's a copy? not necessarily - but it's definitely seen a lot of parts swapping...
a gap-tooth tailpiece w/ non-checkered binding and no MOPFWI?
the bridge saddles don't match that era of tailpiece.
the TRC screws should be Philips head, i believe.
the pickguard is obviously non-original and i'm betting there is a neck pup cavity under there.
does this mean it's a copy? not necessarily - but it's definitely seen a lot of parts swapping...
Re: Is this a Legit Ric 4001?
I wouldn't fix a thing on that bass.. its beautiful the way it is.. especially if there is so much cool history behind it..Mind Eroded wrote:Hey guys, this is my first post here. The guys at talkbass.com directed me here with my question and informed me that I would some helpful insight. I am considering purchasing a supposed Rickenbacker 4001 from a local seller. The bass has undergone many mods and is definitely a project bass which I plan to restore if i purchase it. According to the seller this is the story behind the bass:
"I don't know the year (the jackplate with the serial number was removed before I got it)...When I got the bass, it had seen better days. It had spent the 80's bouncing around in every punk band in Arkansas, and had some (primarily) cosmetic damage. The neck is straight and thru-the-body. Body and neck are both bound. All parts are original save the tuners, the pickguard, and the bridge (the original was wood)
At some point someone ripped out the neck pickup (and corresponding electronics) and put on new tuners. I refinished the wood, cut a new pickguard, and put on new bridge (the original was wood)... essentially everything I was comfortable doing without professional knowledge/help."
He contacted me again today and informed me he now believes it is an early 70's 4001. Here are some pictures he provided me of the bass:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/paulandash ... 2859/show/
Any input/advice would be greatly appreciated. I was already informed on talkbass that I should:
inspect for the following
1. Check under the TRC for 2 rods
2. Check under pickguard for RIC hand writing (4001 - etc..)
3. Check for the binding to NOT be continuous at the tailpeice.
Want free gig photos? http://www.photobucket.com/russellmurchie
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beatlefreak
- Senior Member
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Re: Is this a Legit Ric 4001?
If it originally came with just the one pickup and two controls, it would be a 4000, not a 4001.
Ka is a wheel.
Re: Is this a Legit Ric 4001?
The problem with this is the IDENTIFYING faker characteristics on this bass are hidden.
I have a friend who bought a VERY SIMILAR copy, TRC & all. The saving grace was he got about $350.00 just for the TRC, it was a 1969 as fate would have it...the original case and other goodies helped offset his loss. Only he paid about 1200.00 for it.
SINCE the serial number is missing, (first warning flag) if you can get a picture of the BOTTOM of the bass, where the binding ends near the tail piece would be helpful. A sure fire way of knowing is to get a picture of the TRUSS RODS. Another is, as has been said, the routing under the pickguard.
The stripe looks about right, but too many things were changed for an easy identification. WITHOUT the above mentioned suggestions, I'm at a loss. SERGIO or John from the UK and one or two other members here have a KEEN eye and may be able to tell you with what is provided.
The pictures are poor, but it APPEARS the binding goes under the tailpiece..I just can't tell.
Hang in there, the keen eye crew has yet to chime in.
Not that I added anything new to this, but I see all these options have been covered.....
I have a friend who bought a VERY SIMILAR copy, TRC & all. The saving grace was he got about $350.00 just for the TRC, it was a 1969 as fate would have it...the original case and other goodies helped offset his loss. Only he paid about 1200.00 for it.
SINCE the serial number is missing, (first warning flag) if you can get a picture of the BOTTOM of the bass, where the binding ends near the tail piece would be helpful. A sure fire way of knowing is to get a picture of the TRUSS RODS. Another is, as has been said, the routing under the pickguard.
The stripe looks about right, but too many things were changed for an easy identification. WITHOUT the above mentioned suggestions, I'm at a loss. SERGIO or John from the UK and one or two other members here have a KEEN eye and may be able to tell you with what is provided.
The pictures are poor, but it APPEARS the binding goes under the tailpiece..I just can't tell.
Hang in there, the keen eye crew has yet to chime in.
Not that I added anything new to this, but I see all these options have been covered.....
Re: Is this a Legit Ric 4001?
It looks like a modded 70's 4001- parts guitar. The tail piece appears to the the old style aluminum model but it seems to have a more modern bridge. The modern bridge does not fit into the old tail piece very well so it must be modded to make it fit. I could tell you more if you have a shot of the neck pickup route. The ends of the truss channels and the shape of the pickup route will tell most of the story.
Re: Is this a Legit Ric 4001?
You came to the right place. I've been following this thread over at TB and have made a few comments on it.
I agree that it appears real, but some parts dont make sense. I'd like to see a good clear pick of the truss rods and what lies under the pickguard.
I agree that it appears real, but some parts dont make sense. I'd like to see a good clear pick of the truss rods and what lies under the pickguard.
"Knowledge is Power"
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rickaddict
- Senior Member
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Re: Is this a Legit Ric 4001?
Yep, it's real. It is a 4001 and not a 4000 (triangles, binding, neck-through). I'd say it's a late '73 to '75 model. If it has red side marker dots, then it's a '74. Aluminum tail is not original as RIC stopped putting those on in early '73. Bridge is definitely newer and not made to fit on this tail piece. The good news is that (even with the chrome gone) this tail is probably worth enough to get you a nice new tail piece which will fit better on this bass any way.
Looks like the original color was eggplant Burgundy based on the finish left in the cavities.
Looks like the original color was eggplant Burgundy based on the finish left in the cavities.
Re: Is this a Legit Ric 4001?
Ahh, a few new pics. If people wanted a P-bass sound, why didn't they just get a P-bass??? Real Rick, needs work. The tailpiece alone is worth the price of admission.
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Mind Eroded
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Re: Is this a Legit Ric 4001?
Thanks to everyone who commented on this thread, the insight is GREATLY appreciated.
Best regards,
Paul
Best regards,
Paul
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rickaddict
- Senior Member
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Re: Is this a Legit Ric 4001?
I'm just sayin' it's a real Rick, and it's a '73-'75 4001. I don't know anything about the price!johnallg wrote:Ahh, a few new pics. If people wanted a P-bass sound, why didn't they just get a P-bass??? Real Rick, needs work. The tailpiece alone is worth the price of admission.
It does look like it would be quite a bit of work to restore that puppy to all original though.
And...You're welcome Paul! Good luck with it.
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sloop_john_b
- Rick-a-holic
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Re: Is this a Legit Ric 4001?
It's on NYC craigslist and I've been in touch with the seller about picking it up, mostly for the tailpiece. But I'm just not sure - has there ever been a faker with a gap-toothed tailpiece?
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antipodean
- Senior Member
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Re: Is this a Legit Ric 4001?
John B,
Check out the additional pics (click on the link on the first post). The cavity writing and wiring rout indicate it's the real thing. There is also a nasty rout for P-bass pups that intrudes into the gap between the bridge pup and the original neck pup rout, which is what John A is alluding to.
As a player, it's interesting. I kind of like the "deluxe 4000" look to it, plus the '60s style guard (though a properly cut one would be an improvement!). As to vintage, the smaller inlays say mid-late '73 at the earliest. As the tuner screw holes are for Grovers and the original neck pup was at 1/2", I'd say late '74 at the latest (of course, it could be one of those hold-backs that popped up in '75, but unlikely).
Check out the additional pics (click on the link on the first post). The cavity writing and wiring rout indicate it's the real thing. There is also a nasty rout for P-bass pups that intrudes into the gap between the bridge pup and the original neck pup rout, which is what John A is alluding to.
As a player, it's interesting. I kind of like the "deluxe 4000" look to it, plus the '60s style guard (though a properly cut one would be an improvement!). As to vintage, the smaller inlays say mid-late '73 at the earliest. As the tuner screw holes are for Grovers and the original neck pup was at 1/2", I'd say late '74 at the latest (of course, it could be one of those hold-backs that popped up in '75, but unlikely).
"I don't want to sound incredulous but I can't believe it" Rex Mossop
Re: Is this a Legit Ric 4001?
It looks like a '75 to me. The neck pickup route appears to be able to take both the 1/2" or the 1" spacing. Most '74s are cut to only accept a 1/2" guard. The worst part is it appears to have been Burg. So many Burgs and Azureglos suffered greatly.