am I alone ?

[ajish4]

Did the cotton tops think it was the voice of God?

John Hall designed the 4004 basses.

Not too sure about the cotton tops, but the band sure did love it!

Ah, this is JH's baby huh? Excellent. Sweet, sweet bass. And I guess I'm one of the few here, but I LOVE the gold trim!

You can't eat that kind of sandwich, Tony!!!

You CAN'T?

Tony the Termite!

LoL, I've said it at least a hundred times....."I must have been a termite in a previous life"...cause I LOVE the look of natural wood so much!

Glad you love it Tony! And as for the boldface hilight in your post above - I TOLD YOU SO!!!!

[woodyng]

when i first got my cii,i didn't care for the gold trim combined with the mapleglo,i have since grown to really like it. the gold REALLY looks fantastic on all the trans color options-the blue,red and (slobber..) green especially....

[dcr]

Put me down for more controls too, please. I like simplicity, & generally prefer passive to active. I even have another bass with volume, tone, & selector switch. Heck, I've even been tempted to make a Warmoth bass with no knobs at all. However, I found that the controls on the 4004 were just too limiting for me. I'd prefer a V/V/T, but that means drilling out the hole the switch is in to make it large enough for a pot, & I'm not crazy about that.

I guess part of the problem was that, try as I might, I just could not warm up to that neck pickup. It is very dark & kind of hollow sounding, to my ears. It would be nice to be able to dial it back a bit without just shutting it off altogether. My suspicion is that the placement of the neck pickup so far from the bridge, right up against the neck, has it in a less than totally "sweet" spot, tonally speaking. I see it as a compromise to preserve the clean look of the bass while giving access to the truss rod channels. In the end, though, the design needs to sound right, not just look right.

Glad to see that the 4004 has a lot of happy fans, even if I'm not one of them.

[cheyenne]

I agree with you dcr. "Dark and hollow sounding" nails the description. My larado is wired V/V/T and when you slightly roll back the neck pickup, you can get a nicer, fuller tone without the "hollowness".

As far as pickup placement being the cause, my '02 CII had the other pickup placement, and to my ears sounded pretty much the same.

The Larado is brighter sounding with more mid punch.

[spongebob]

I'm totally happy with the controls on my 4004.

It is so easy to get a killer tone, straight out of the case - controls to max, middle position on the pickup selector...and go!

Even before I bought it, I was always worried about it not living up to my 4003 - especially as here in the UK I had no opportunity to try it out. I was simply persueded by all the info I gained on this forum.....and the fact that Lemmy has got his signature '04 - hell, its a Ric......it can never be bad, can it?

Believe what you read. The 4004 is a fab bass.

[rickaddict]

I guess part of the problem was that, try as I might, I just could not warm up to that neck pickup. It is very dark & kind of hollow sounding, to my ears. It would be nice to be able to dial it back a bit without just shutting it off altogether.

Maybe we just need to do what I've done with my Glenn Frey bass--adjust the height of the neck pickup down relative to the bridge pickup until we get the optimal blend.

[rickenbrother]

I'm totally happy with the controls on my 4004.

It is so easy to get a killer tone, straight out of the case - controls to max, middle position on the pickup selector...and go!

Believe what you read. The 4004 is a fab bass.

I agree, Iain. I play all my Ricks with both pickups on and all the controls maxed almost all the time, so doing a VVT mod wouldn't be necessary for my personal needs.

[cassius987]

I guess part of the problem was that, try as I might, I just could not warm up to that neck pickup. It is very dark & kind of hollow sounding, to my ears. It would be nice to be able to dial it back a bit without just shutting it off altogether.

Maybe we just need to do what I've done with my Glenn Frey bass--adjust the height of the neck pickup down relative to the bridge pickup until we get the optimal blend.

I did that with my 4003 MG right away and it made a WORLD of difference once I had "matched" them. I know some people are big into "this pickup does this and this pickup does that" but I like mine to be fairly similar in output. That lets me focus on other differences like frequency response due to position, and attenuate those things various different ways with independent controls per pickup.

As far as pickup placement being the cause, my '02 CII had the other pickup placement, and to my ears sounded pretty much the same.

Wow, really? I would have thought pushing the neck pickup further "south" would have made a world of difference. In fact I think a 4004 with J Bass/4002ish pickup routs would be neato.

I think a pickup like the HB1 (since we're talking 4004 tone) would really benefit (in the minds of people like me) from something like Audere's Z-Switching module so you could play around with the tone a LOT. I like that dark 'bucker sound sometimes but it's not always what I'm after. In fact, a "4006" (4002 with HB1s) would be a perfect candidate for the Audere pre because it would be reminiscent of the original variable impedance design. That said you could also just do coil taps and series/parallel switching if you just wanted to get away from stock, parallel 'bucker sound sometimes.

In the end, though, the design needs to sound right, not just look right.

I definitely agree, DCR, but unfortunately I've never played a 4004 to know how I feel about their sound. If for some reason I had to choose as a builder which to favor--even though I don't believe you really ever have to make this decision--I would favor sound over look. Something built to be high in utility and function and a pleasurable tool for the artisan will NATURALLY start to look good...

[incubus2432]

I got my modded LK back from JPS today and am very pleased with the V/V/V/T (stacked pots) and kill toggle layout. I only got to play it for an hour-ish between jobs today but it didn't take long to realize that there are a wealth of distinct tones available.

In stock configuration the bridge could be soloed so that hasn't changed but hearing the center p/u by itself was interesting.....as JPS put it, there is a p-bass vibe from it and when it is used with the bridge it adds just enough "balls" to take the edge off of the boarderline harshness of the bridge. BTW, the mid and bridge LK p/u's are, IIRC, in about the same locations as the 4002 layout.

The neck p/u soloed is a little too "thick" perhaps even a little "muddy" for use on it's own (IMO) but is great for adding some grunt to either/both of the others. It's not that it sounds bad by itself it just lacks definition relative to the others. It functions well filling out tone gaps left by the others though.

It's certainly interesting seeing the different characteristics of the p/u's related to positioning and how they blend with each other. The best LK tone previously for my tastes was all p/u's on and tone full....now that may change and I'll save the "all cranked" setting for my Lemmy-wall-o-dirt needs.

[incubus2432]

I guess I should mention that while tinkering with my freshly modded LK I was also constantly tweaking my new-to-me Mesa 400+ so I have many tone variables to work through as I zero in on my "go to" tone. Once I get that hammered out then I can mess with the subtle nuances of the LK a tad more.

[cheyenne]

Maybe we just need to do what I've done with my Glenn Frey bass--adjust the height of the neck pickup down relative to the bridge pickup until we get the optimal blend.

Been there done that. Great point.

It does make a world of difference!

My suggestion is for everyone who owns a 4004 explore this option. Even the most subtle change makes a huge difference in tone.

[ajish4]

Maybe we just need to do what I've done with my Glenn Frey bass--adjust the height of the neck pickup down relative to the bridge pickup until we get the optimal blend.

Been there done that. Great point.

It does make a world of difference!

My suggestion is for everyone who owns a 4004 explore this option. Even the most subtle change makes a huge difference in tone.

Good advice, so far, I'm kinda happy with the way it is, but will store for future use, thanks everyone!

[cheyenne]

My take on the 4004 series.

The 4004 is a completely different animal folks. You can come close to a 4003 sound but not quite. If you want that tone, get a 4003.

Rickenbacker is trying to offer a different sounding model here. The difference to me is like comparing a Jazz bass to a Precision bass. The 4004 being the Precision. I think thats why everyone mentions that they "punch through" the mix so well. (just like a P-bass).

Both sound great. But are very different when compared together.

Anyone else feel this way?

[johnallg]

In a way.... I think my 4003/1 basses sound closer to a Precision type sound and my 4004C gets closer to a Jazz type sound.

[cassius987]

I think the analogy holds but not in terms of which bass holds what role--just about the distinctiveness of the two in light of each other.

However, I don't feel P Basses and J Basses sound that different (I am always going to music stores and playing through their entire wall of basses for fun, which always includes ~20 Fender basses), whereas 4004s, because of their pickups, have a completely different character compared to 4003s. In fact, the in-house pickups of Rics is really a big part of why they sound so different in SPITE of the other unique features, and we have to admit this. Nobody else is making anything quite like Hi-Gains or Toasters to my knowledge, and the HB1 is a fairly unusual humbucker.

Re: 4003=Jazz Bass, P Bass?
Personally I think my 4003s sound a little more like P Basses than J Basses, but not much--it's as if they sit on a continuum between the two but favoring the P Bass side (which for me is good). However they also have a lot of unique tones that I've never gotten out of anything else, and that's why it's hard for me to describe my basses to other players, especially online. If I had to say there was any other bass that made similar sounds that I have played, it would be the Warwick Streamer that I borrowed on multiple occasions when I was living in Lawrence, KS, so I could play at a jazz gig. It was the house bassist's and it had a similar punch to my 4003s. The problem with that bass, for me, is that it hurt the palm of my left hand because of the squarish neck profile.