Would you like to see imported Rick budget models?

shamustwin · Post by **shamustwin** » Fri Apr 16, 2004 11:21 am

I feel most buyers are aware, even young, entry level buyers, that in buying a Squire or Epiphone, they're buying a lesser quality guitar not representative of the best Fender or Gibson can do. I also feel the new top end strats are excellent guitars, probably as good as in their "glory days", and I will buy one. I percieve Ricks are better made of course, and have no need to go the entry level route.

I liked the Electro my pal had when we were kids, and was excited because I knew it was "almost a Rickenbacker, like the Beatles played".

Any serious guitarist doing their homework when it comes time to "arm" themselves will hopefully consider all makes and what will suit their needs best. I "need" more than a strat to get the sounds I want, and am working on it (so far a 660/12). I'm considering a 340 or 360, a Gretsch, or an Epiphone Casino.

In some countries, 200 bucks US is a decent, middle class monthly wage. You couldn't start paying workers in those countries 16 bucks an hour. But they might be doing a better job than those in a first world country earning 16 an hour.

The Squires and such are of a lesser quality by design, not because they are made elsewhere. There's ******* made right here in the good old USA too.

atomic_punk · Post by **atomic_punk** » Fri Apr 16, 2004 11:24 am

Any question what it might do to the Rickenbacker name can be seen with the Spector basses. Their high-end stuff, great. Now they have OLP making cheap knock-offs of the same instrument, and you can see quality high end Spectors BEGGING on Ebay. Why? Because people can get the cheaper ones and it brings down the whole line. Or people play the cheaper ones and think that they are garbage and have a bad impression of them. I'm not a big fan of the "budget line" of anything. If you want the Les Paul Custom, spend the money. A Studio is not the same thing. If you want a Rickenbacker, and the quality and craftsmanship that comes with that name, it has a price tag.

spike · Post by **spike** » Fri Apr 16, 2004 11:33 am

"Why? Because people can get the cheaper ones and it brings down the whole line"

There are many reasons why people aren't buying high end Spectors. Only one of which is because there's a cheaper line to choose from. It is also possible the Spector wasn't taking in the revenue they needed and decided to boost the bottom like by getting involved in the import trade. The point is we don't know.

I also think that, as Jerry implied, that people need to be given a little more credit when it comes to the choices they make and the impressions they take away from playing budget guitars.

dave4004 · Post by **dave4004** » Fri Apr 16, 2004 11:38 am

You and the original poster have stated your views, I and others are free to disagree.

And although we all know JH's view, this was presented as something RIC actually ought to do to improve its business.

FWIW, I'm a big Gibson and Fender fan too, much more so than many others here. But I'm also able to see the effect of their imports.

And I don't look down my nose at imports. The other day I played a $269 Univox Hi-Flyer (Mosrite knockoff) bass that sounded much better than the $1000 Mosrite the store had. But the Mosrite will always be worth more because the name signals US quality -- whether it's deserved or not is another question.

spike · Post by **spike** » Fri Apr 16, 2004 12:00 pm

Dave, we just fundamentally disagree on the impact imports have had.

I'm checking out of this thread. I've said all I need to say and perhaps a bit too much.

blur · Post by **blur** » Fri Apr 16, 2004 12:31 pm

My only comment on this: as long as it's my decision, the only guitars this company will offer will be American-made.

However, there's room for some accessory goods made overseas if equivalent North American items are not available.

I appreciate you taking the time to comment in here, John.

beefandbones · Post by **beefandbones** » Fri Apr 16, 2004 1:33 pm

Rickenbacker guitars are among the best values in high quality craftsmanship in the world. If RIC wanted to offer a line of no frills, budget guitars, why couldn't they be made in the USA under the Electro name? That would be my vote.

Anyway, WOW lotsa strong feelings about this subject!

rictified · Post by **rictified** » Fri Apr 16, 2004 2:08 pm

I like Fenders and I like Gibsons, (old ones) I had 1, 2, 3, no 4 brand new American Jazz Deluxes within the last three years, and one Am. Deluxe Precision, these are supposed to be the top of the line Fender bass (besides the reissues basses which I have heard are pretty good.) On all of them the screws for the straplocks stripped, they were too small. The pick guard did not line up correctly on one of them and I had to take it off to adjust the pickup, none of the pickups adjusted freely like they should have. The bridges were not aligned exact with the neck on a couple of them, the necks were not very strong (Graphite and everything). And the finish was not very good.

I felt that for the same price as a Ric I had bought something vastly inferior, it was obvious that their quality control was lacking something as those problems should not have left the factory. I traded them in (pre Ebay for me) and got about $300.00 for each one. I traded in an 84 4003 around the same time to the same store and got about $750.00 and it had some marks on it, was not in mint condition. They sounded good (for an active bass which I personally do not like)and played nice, but these are Fender's flagship line??!! I dumped ALL of them and bought more Rics.

This topic has been discussed before, and you might want to do a search and find it.
BTW I was flamed in another forum recently for overstepping the bounds between opinion and obstinately trying to push my point of view on others as the CORRECT point of view. I learned a a valuable lesson. I give my opinion and if others don't agree with it, I leave it alone, this is a forum for the free exchange of opinions and ideas, it is not a place to try to force other people to change their opinions.

Most of us here have discussed this very thing before and have agreed that it would be a really stupid thing to do and also that we were proud that Ric has an owner that's strong enough to withstand the trend of making cheap guitars. If that's an elitist attitude to you, well all I can say is any Ric I see, I know where it's been made, I know who owns the company, and I know what's inside of it. And I know how it's going to play and sound.

All of us complain about our own little pet peeves with Rickenbacker but we have a CEO who actually listens to our BS and actually answers some of it. And he is proud of his company and we are to.

blur · Post by **blur** » Fri Apr 16, 2004 2:17 pm

Well written, Robert.

We're all on the same side here at the end of the day. Otherwise we wouldn't be talking Rics at all.

And on that note, I'm out of the thread.

admin · Post by **admin** » Fri Apr 16, 2004 8:50 pm

From the Admin perspective, I am long overdue for a comment here.

It will be noted that the landscape has changed within this thread as a result of considerable editing. I have tried to keep the major points in mind while removing a number of comments that were either off topic or lacked a respect for others.

Some posts were deleted entirely. Life is short, Jangle on!

jamesvwaal · Post by **jamesvwaal** » Sat Apr 17, 2004 12:17 am

Interesting discussion topic! Man, I stop reading for a couple of days and look at what happens: 42 posts in only 3 days on the same topic.

Since I am currently teaching within a business degree program, I think we could take a minute here and consider Rickenbacker from a business strategy point of view. It is fairly well established now that companies can really only be successful by taking ONE of TWO approaches. Either you are the LOW cost leader (high volume), or the HIGH quality leader (low volume). Middle ground is a bad place to be; no one wants to pay premium price for a lower quality item.

So where is Rickenbacker? Firmly in the HIGH quality, premium price quadrant. (And not really that premium of a price either; consider how much more expensive Paul Reed Smith or other boutique makers price their guitars.) Where is Fender and Gibson? Yup, in the LOW cost, bulk manufacture quadrant. Sure they price some guitars up there, but do you think 'quality' when you hear Gibson or Fender? (I own a 1983 American-made telecaster and love it for what it does; but I wouldn't pay more than the $275 that I spent to buy it used, or new for that matter.)

Should Rickenbacker attempt to operate in TWO quadrants; i.e. attempt to be a HIGH quality and a LOW cost producer? IMHO, no way. You can look at countless case studies of companies that attempted to be all things to all people and failed miserably. Think AOL Time Warner; think General Electric; think Nike for that matter. Many companies that expand into business units outside their core units end up failing in those endeavors because they are not the leader outside their core, and must play catch up. I for one would not want to see Rickenbacker take their focus away from what they do best to attempt to compete at the bottom end of the ladder. Not good business sense.

At the end of the day, I think that Rickenbacker is one American company whose case study should be taught in American business schools. Good lesson in that company's handling. Demand outpacing supply? For a HIGH quality manufacturer that is probably the best position to be in. It helps to keep the quality perception live in peoples' minds. And people buy based upon perception, not just reality.

madscotsman · Post by **madscotsman** » Sat Apr 17, 2004 5:57 am

Rickenbacker's are not cookie cutter guitars, they should not ever be made that way. If you want cheap and overly mass produced- get a Fender. Or one of the many Fender clones or wanna-be's.

fergs40 · Post by **fergs40** » Sat Apr 17, 2004 1:32 pm

I'm wary of dipping my toe into this particular stretch of water, but I have to say that my 98 MIM Tele is a great guitar, and I love it.

Having said that, I've lost count of the number of threads I've read on Fender forums where people have talked about playing every Fender in the shop before finding the one that 'spoke' to them.

And maybe that's the difference - unless you go to Ed Roman (apparently - living in London, Las Vegas is a bit of a trek

), you're unlikely to find a great selection of Ricks to try in any particular shop (I found very few on a recent trip to Denmark Street, supposedly London's music store mecca). But the likelihood is that you'll want to take every single one of the buggers home...

wormdiet · Post by **wormdiet** » Sat Apr 17, 2004 1:56 pm

Peter - thank you for taking an active and effective role in managing the forums! THis is a haven on the internet away from all the mindless BS flaming and juvenile behavior, and that occasionally takes work to maintain. You do an excellent job - much appreciated.

atomic_punk · Post by **atomic_punk** » Sat Apr 17, 2004 2:18 pm

Seconding John's Comment...