Time For Franchise Restrictions To Go?

blur · Post by **blur** » Sat Apr 17, 2004 4:03 pm

Some of you will know that I'm a guy on the hunt for his first Rick, but am looking everywhere except my native country (Australia), because I refuse to be gouged by local dealers who, IMHO, are holding the local market to ransom.

One of the first things I came across during this hunt was dealers in the US telling me that I could only buy used guitars from them as, unfortunately (and as much as some of them would really like to sell to me), dealer restrictions meant they couldn't ship new guitars outside the US/Canada/Mexico.

I think this is such a shame! We now live in a genuine world market and I, personally, think dealers should compete on a world level. If a dealer wants to invest in the expertise and marketing that will attract a worldwide clientele (and obviously many of these dealers do, because they have a massive worldwide clientele in used Ricks already), IMHO they should be able to sell new to that market, too.

What do you guys think? I know that most of you are in the US, so it will be a case of, "Problem? What problem?" but if you put yourself in the shoes of, say, an Australian, New Zelander or South African for a moment... wouldn't you appreciate the oppotunity to buy new from the best dealer? And that might not neccessarily mean the absolute best price every time, either!

So long as Rick sold to all dealers at the same prices, the market would shake itself out. If this meant that non-US dealers had to cut their rather high margins to compete, so be it. I don't know why they should be protected - because, ultimately all it results in is innocent customers being gouged on price, and looking to buy used guitars instead.

Interested in your thoughts!

atomic_punk · Post by **atomic_punk** » Sat Apr 17, 2004 4:41 pm

I know I contacted Rickenbacker Asia about trying to get one of the 4003s8's they still had available, and got shut down by them as well because I lived in the USA. I found that a little puzzling and frankly, was sad, because I really wanted one, even with the considerable markup, and was excited that I might be able to get a brand new one!

Your concept could concievably correct the "problem" other Forum members report concerning getting goods in the UK. Order from here, ship to there. But I don't think it would work for RIC, because the local dealers still adjust and set up the guitars prior to delivery to the customer, due to the long travel distances and the variety of climates the instruments travel thru. It is an important part of their quality process.

So yes, someone in the USA has felt your pain, Rob.

atomic_punk · Post by **atomic_punk** » Sat Apr 17, 2004 4:43 pm

I'm sure there are more reasons than that...but that was one that I thought of straight away.

hamiltone · Post by **hamiltone** » Sun Apr 18, 2004 1:47 am

With the current exchange rate between the US Dollar and the British Pound, I refuse to buy anything from UK dealers. US dealers appreciate my business far more than my experience of UK dealers and the cost savings can be huge, e.g. I saved over £1000 on my 325C58 buying from the US. Last year I bought a used 4001 from Rumble Seat Music in NY. With the shipping charges and UK VAT, the bass ended up at just over £700 and it was here in three days from placing my order. I don't care about Distributor/Dealer setups prior to final sale because I do all my own work. And anyway, in my experience, guitars that are supposed to be setup by the dealer just aren't. There are exceptions, but for the most part they don't 'appear' to do anything. Plus a good setup is as individual as the player. One US dealer that I know told me that he is shipping more guitars to UK customers than he is to US customers, again, because the savings can be huge. The internet has opened up a world market so people should be able to buy from wherever they wish.

admin · Post by **admin** » Sun Apr 18, 2004 3:32 am

In Canada we have to worry about the exchange and then, where I live, add an additional 15% HST(Harmonized Sales Tax). Believe me, it brings little harmony to the consumer. You can also add roughly $100 for shipping and brokerage unless you want to have your Rickenbacker out on the road for an extended period.

At this stage, dealers are some distance away from many buyers and it is simply not practical to go visit.

My solution has been to buy used over the internet. There are many good deals to be had and the quality of Rickenbackers (assuming that you can guarantee that there has not been abuse) is high. While it is possible to be fooled, I have thus far been very lucky and received all of my used Rickenbackers from a 1966 450/12 to a 1988 4003 in very good shape.

Rob: Have you considered going for a used instrument? The quality is there at an affordable price. Most issues surrounding a used instrument can be resolved by accessing persons familiar with Rickenbackers.

jamesvwaal · Post by **jamesvwaal** » Sun Apr 18, 2004 3:54 am

Rob, I know he gets hammered here and in other forums, but Ed Roman does carry Rickenbackers and he does ship anywhere in the world. I ordered a Ric last summer (July) and received it in early January, a wait of only five months. (I was told by JH that the average wait was around 8 months.) I did have to pay a hefty surcharge for shipping and insurance (~25%) and had to pay a 10% import duty (into Malaysia), but having the guitar now was worth the hassle. Ed Roman used Bax Global to ship and they have an online tracking website. It took less than 2 weeks from the time it left Las Vegas to reach me. And Ed Roman's did a good job of setting up the guitar and packing it for shipping.

If you're interested: http://www.edromanguitars.com

headbanger · Post by **headbanger** » Sun Apr 18, 2004 4:36 am

Naughty Ed then....

hamiltone · Post by **hamiltone** » Sun Apr 18, 2004 5:00 am

Not ER again......there are no words that I can use on this forum that will allow me to adequately describe this man (if I can even call him that). It appears that ER is trying to corner/control the world market for guitars and basses. Has he no idea that 'biggest' is not always 'best'? I'm just hoping that there's a sufficient enough error in his tax return sometime soon that will allow the IRS to investigate.....and put him out of business (for good). Who the hell does he think he is anyway?

philco · Post by **philco** » Sun Apr 18, 2004 5:28 am

Ed Roman has dealt honestly with me the one time that I have used him. No Tacoma guitar dealers were in my immediate area, and he shipped me an excellent C1C Chief. However, some of his sales tactics are dubious, including rating Rickenbacker basses a 1 out of a possible 7 points on his internet site, but carrying a lot of Rickenbackers basses in his walk-in store. That's because he does not want to compete on internet Rickenbacker prices from people like Jim Rhoads and Mike Parks. Just call him "Ed Mister-Situational-Ethics", and if you still feel comfortable dealing with him, then go ahead. He definitely knows the guitar market and how to ship to anywhere, but you had better know the market as well. Don't let him talk you into a $200 neck shave that removes the "heel from hell" on Rickenbackers and does virtually nothing except possible damage to the guitar. Be wary of his own custom shop guitars and basses as well. His store may be a good place for NEW high end custom instruments, but Musician's Friend or Music 123 would actually be preferable to me as a place for mid to low end instruments, because you can send stuff back with a lot less hassle. NOT a good place for used gear either, at least over the internet.

I agree with Peter that used instruments over the internet is the best way to go. The best instrument I own was bought on the internet, and at a very good price. The few times you get burned is more than made up for the many times you get a gem. Dealing with people who have a track record of honesty means you probably get screwed less than by local dealers. Mike Parks will treat you right on a used Rick, and you will find a call to him more pleasant than one to Mister Ed. Also, there is NO WAITING on used Rickenbackers in stock. Bass Northwest and Bass Central would be FAR preferable on bass gear than Mister Ed. They don't stock many new Rickenbackers, but they have used ones taken in trade, which I prefer anyway. When you call Spector and ask for an internet dealer, they refer you to Bass Central, NOT Mister ED.

blur · Post by **blur** » Sun Apr 18, 2004 6:13 am

Have you considered going for a used instrument? The quality is there at an affordable price.

Yup - that is absolutely what I'm doing at the moment. When I can find the right guitar, I'll be laying down my hard-earned. And even better if I find a dealer or individual who takes PayPal, as I currently have a backlog of money in my PayPal account, just waiting to be played with!

Ed Roman does carry Rickenbackers and he does ship anywhere in the world.

Are you saying that Ed will ship new guitars worldwide, even though every other dealer just about makes the sign of the cross and jumps under the table if it's suggested, because it goes against Rickenbacker's policy?

jamesvwaal · Post by **jamesvwaal** » Sun Apr 18, 2004 1:26 pm

He shipped to Malaysia. I would think that Australia would be considered a safer place to ship to than Malaysia.

jamesvwaal · Post by **jamesvwaal** » Sun Apr 18, 2004 1:36 pm

And I might add, he was cheaper on the new guitar price than any other online dealer: cheaper than Music123, cheaper than Musician's Friend, etc. (Send me a private email message, Rob, and I will give you the price quotes from all three.) He may, however, have made up the difference a little in pricing the shipping. Hard to tell. You could contact your local office of Bax Global and see what they charge for shipping a 25-kg package from Las Vegas, Nevada, to you in Australia. Then compare that to what ERG quotes for shipping.

For what it's worth, gentlemen, I too have read the horror stories about Ed Roman Guitars. But to be honest, my dealing with them was straight forward. I never did talk to Ed himself, only two of his sales/shipping staff. Anytime you deal with a company you must be real careful that requests are communicated clearly. And it is important to document what was agreed upon. That means using e-mail and back-copying yourself so that you have a "paper trail". I called my order in on the phone, but I followed up with an email confirmation.

stukay · Post by **stukay** » Sun Apr 18, 2004 2:27 pm

It could be worse ... you could live in New Zealand. If you can get to see a new Rick you can guarantee that the price will be outlandish.

There is no NZ distributor. The official distributor for NZ is the Australian Distributor that is based in Melbourne, Victoria. They have no NZ dealers for Ricks. It seems that all their Ricks are kept for Australia.

And as for parts, well the less said the better. I made an enquiry re some replacement vintage machine heads for my boy's 4001. After three weeks of waiting for a reply from the distributor I got a friend of mine in Perth to contact the local Ric dealer and get a price. AS$152 and a 5 month wait. This is equivalent to NZ$170. I had already tried to get them from a US dealer at US$60 (NZ$88) but was unable to due to the restrictions placed on the dealer.

I refuse to pay double the going domestic rate for these items. And it is not just Ric ... I was quoted NZ$145 for a set of Fender ones in a local music shop ... despite the fact that the salesman who claimed an intimate knowledge of 4001's didn't seem to recognise the fact that the Fender ones were for a bass with all four machine heads in line a'la Fender.

It looks as though I may have to purchase some non-Rick machine heads on-line. I have seen suitable ones for about US$23 or so ...

mark_franklin · Post by **mark_franklin** » Sun Apr 18, 2004 3:30 pm

Rob i share your frustration I live in Australia and refuse to purchase a RIC guitar from an Australian retailer due to the cost. It is cheaper to fly to the US and buy a guitar. I have been very lucky with Ebay and have purchased 2 RICS that way, if you know someone in the US have a new RIC shipped to their house and arrange for it to be picked up I have purchased another 2 that way. As there is only 1 importer in Aus there is no other way. The problem is Aus is not the retailers its the importer charging US recommended retail prices plus duty and tax then the retailer puts there margin on the Guitars which makes them just to expensive, same with parts. You can buy a 350V63 from the US at say $1400US the same Guitar in Aus is $4500A from Jacksons in Sydney aprox $3400US now thats a joke with the A$ at $0.75US now I dont mind them making a profit but thats 145% nice work if you can get it.

Good luck

Mark

blur · Post by **blur** » Sun Apr 18, 2004 8:43 pm

Hey Mark,

Let's import a vew 350v63s and sell them to places like Jacksons!

Instant $$$