Anatomy Of A Rickenbacker Bass Part 5

[rickenbrother]

I had the reverse tuners on my '73 and '75 basses and they drove me NUTS!

Same here. I had them on my '75 FL and my '81 S. I couldn't replace those reverse tuners fast enough with new RIC tuners.

[weemac]

I wonder if those M4s could be fitted onto a 4003? I really like the way they feel when I play iiipopes' 4002.

Yes they fit fine! and if you want to put the stock tuners back on the location hole for the M4s is easily covered by the stock tuners....

Eden.

[rickfan60]

A lot of people don't like the reverse tuners. I wonder if that is why the factory switched to the forward type. BTW both the M4s and the Grovers are forward tuners.

[johnallg]

I had the reverse tuners on my '73 and '75 basses and they drove me NUTS!

Same here. I had them on my '75 FL and my '81 S. I couldn't replace those reverse tuners fast enough with new RIC tuners.

Yeah, my '75 has the reverse nickle tuners, but since they don't go out of tune and the neck is so stable I left them on!

[pacealot]

Personally, I grew up on the "reverse" tuners, and they still feel most natural to me. It's easier to remember "lefty-loosy, righty-tighty" for me, especially in moments of lack of equanimity, like on stage!

[wints]

Personally, I grew up on the "reverse" tuners, and they still feel most natural to me. It's easier to remember "lefty-loosy, righty-tighty" for me, especially in moments of lack of equanimity, like on stage!

Me too!

[teeder]

Here are the Flat key Grovers on my '69 4001S.

[teeder]

"lefty-loosy, righty-tighty"

Hey, Paul, let's keep politics out of this!

[rickfan60]

Nice picture Kevin! I think the flat key version may have been replaced by the wavy key. The flat ones seem to be found only on late 60's and early 70's basses. My flat key picture is of Paul Boyer's '72. That is about the latest I have seen them applied.

[teeder]

I agree. My '71 should have flats, but they were changed out to wavy's. (far right)

[rickaddict]

Flatties were used from '69 to early/mid '72

The new Schallers are definitely superior to the old reverse tuners, but the reverse tuners are good enough, last forever, and have that vintage mojo that the new Schallers don't.

The Schallers are smoother, easier to clean/lubricate, can be used on either side of the headstock, the chrome doesn't easily dull, and the post screw can be tightened without binding the tuner. And when it is tight, it won't vibrate out like on the Klusons.

But I wouldn't go to the trouble to change them (no offense, Joey!) The Klusons look good on a vintage bass and work well.

Somehow, my brain automatically knows which way to turn each tuner. It's similar to the way you adjust to a motorcycle vs. a bicycle. On a bicycle, your front brake is on your left hand lever; on a motorcycle your front brake is on your right hand lever. I don't think about it...I just automatically do what is needed.

And about putting M4 tuners on a 4003....Has anybody actually done this? I'm pretty sure the hole for the post is much larger on the M4. So you'd have to drill them out. Putting the open-backed Schallers back in at that point would require a dowel/redrill or some sort of bushing to make the open-backed Schaller's ferrules fit in the headstock again.

And my $.02 Josh...I'd advise not messing with your tuners. It won't make your bass sound or play any better. I have the M4's on my GF, my 4002, my S/5, and my S/8 and in my opinion the open backed Schallers are better. I prefer the finer gear ratio of the open backed Schallers. It makes it easier to bring the string up to pitch without going too far.

These threads are great, Ted. Keep 'em coming!

[cassius987]

And about putting M4 tuners on a 4003....Has anybody actually done this? I'm pretty sure the hole for the post is much larger on the M4. So you'd have to drill them out. Putting the open-backed Schallers back in at that point would require a dowel/redrill or some sort of bushing to make the open-backed Schaller's ferrules fit in the headstock again.

Actually it's funny that you bring the M4 conversion up. I took measurements on my 4003 last night and compared all parts of the tuning assembly to the Schaller BM (which the RIC stock tuners are based on) and the M4. Well, this is good news for me: while the mounting assembly is EXACTLY like the BM model, the bore itself is dimensionally speaking a near clone of the M4. An M4 would only require a new screw hole at best, and that hole would be covered up by the BM mount later if one were to convert back. RIC must have specified these unique specs to Schaller. The only difference really is that the M4 takes all 12 mm to itself and the stock tuner gives 2 of those mm to an extra part and keep the other 10 to itself.

[rickfan60]

And about putting M4 tuners on a 4003....Has anybody actually done this? I'm pretty sure the hole for the post is much larger on the M4. So you'd have to drill them out. Putting the open-backed Schallers back in at that point would require a dowel/redrill or some sort of bushing to make the open-backed Schaller's ferrules fit in the headstock again.

That is a good question. The grommet/ferrule on the standard tuner is quite a bit larger in diameter than the post. The M4 might drop in. I'll check that out tonight.

[cassius987]

It's 2-3 mm wider than the 10 mm post. The drilled hole is about 12.5 or 13 mm itself. The M4 (@ 12 mm) fits. In case I didn't make this clear in my last post, I took a tuner out and measured all the parts compared to specs I printed out from Schaller.

[pacealot]

"lefty-loosy, righty-tighty"

Hey, Paul, let's keep politics out of this!

You got me! Based on my playing style, I'd say I lean towards musical "liberalism" - my groove is as loosy-goosy as it gets!

It's funny - Jeff has a good point. I don't give myself much credit for these things, but when I switch to a basses with a totally different type of tuner, like my Hamer 12ver, or even to guitar, I don't even think about the fact that they turn the "right" way. But if I have a cloverleaf in my hand, it naturally wants to go the "other" way. It took me a number of years onstage with the original tuners on my V63 to retrain myself, and then I had to "un-retrain" myself once I put the C64 tuners on it ! But reverse still comes most naturally to me after all the brainwashing goes away.

Another great post in this fantastic series, Ted! Thanks!