Tony Hatch

admin · Post by **admin** » Thu Dec 07, 2000 11:28 am

There has been much speculation with regard to why The Searchers were not as successful as they might have been. At the risk of introducing another variable not previously discussed, I am wondering whether Tony Hatch was a bit of a bottleneck for them. While he offered his own composition of "Sugar and Spice" under the name of "Fred Nightingale" I am wondering in what other ways he was an effective producer. Was he of the caliber of a George Martin, a "fifth Searcher?" So lets hear it. Did Tony Hatch "produce" or not? The following photo of Tony, Frank, Mike, John and Johnny in the studio appeared in a 1997 issue of the Record Collector Magazine.

Jeff · Post by **Jeff** » Thu Dec 07, 2000 3:27 pm

I think Hatch did an okay job on the earlier material ("Sweets for My Sweet", "Needles and Pins', "Don't Throw Your Love Away"). As time went on though I have a feeling that he got stuck in a rut production-wise; "He's Got No Love", "When I Get Home" and the material from the Searchers last Pye album sound pretty similar as far as the production goes. Later "Have You Ever Loved Somebody" toughened up the groups sound somewhat, and "Popcorn, Double Feature" was a nice acid pop production which deserved to do better on the charts. After the latter's failure to chart, Pye and/or Hatch pretty much lost interest.

Jeff

jjr · Post by **jjr** » Thu Dec 07, 2000 4:05 pm

I think he made three contributions. First, he got them on record(but the first few albums were basically their live show material, and I think his input was minimal). Second, he gave them a keyboardist on a lot of their records with piano. I assume he had a lot to do with the arrangements. Third, during the middle to endgame period, I think he had something to do with the varying types of sound (See Kapp LP "Searchers No. 4). Sometime it worked (Strings on "What Have They Done to the Rain"); sometime it didn't(Listen to the alternate cut of "I Don't Want to Go on Without You" off the 30th Anniversary set. No strings, much better).

I believe he was more of a showtune kind of guy. He produced Petulia Clark; I think he did "Downtown", etc.So I don't know how "rockin'" he was. Still, he let Curtis put out all those 'B' sides. Did he hold them back? I don't think so. As we've discussed elsewhere, even as they honed their sound, they limited themselves to a much narrower framework of musical styles to work in with the loss of Tony and Chris.Was he George Martin? No way. I don't think he helped them expand their horizons or style ( I mean, if the Stones could do "Their Satanic Majesties Request", as a response to "Sgt. Pepper", Hatch couldn't sell the Searchers on a concept album?)

My evaluation: Your run of the mill, possibly above average (technically) RECORD CO. producer, who satisfied the bottom line, rapid fire money makers for the firm, but who failed to do right by, or properly utilize to the max, the 4 best technical musicians in Liverpool.

RJHC · Post by **RJHC** » Thu Dec 07, 2000 6:36 pm

_THE RECORDINGS HE DID WITH THEM SOUNDED

EXCELLENT . THEY SOUNDED BETTER THAN THE STAR

CLUB RECORDINGS . HE DID SHOW PROGRESSION BY

GOING TO A SPECTOR TYPE OF PRODUCTION AROUND THE

TIME OF #4 . SO WHAT IF THE SEARCHERS DIDN'T MAKE

THEIR OWN SGT PEPPER . THE BEATLES STARTED GOING

DOWN HILL ABOUT THIS TIME .

_THANKS PETER FOR THE PHOTOGRAPH . THIS ONES FOR

THE PRINT BUTTON .

keith_gompertz · Post by **keith_gompertz** » Sun Dec 31, 2000 10:13 am

No, no ,no. It's altogether much more simple than that.The Searchers were contracted to the UK PYE record label based in Cambridge UK. Although leaders in TV and radio development they were a tiny company compared to EMI (the Beatles recording company). Hatch would have been under enormous pressure to generate cash flow (i.e. hit record after hit record), hence they were over recorded (as acknowledged by the Searchers). When the hits dried up they were dropped. PYE only exists if at all as a brand name now and nothing else.

admin · Post by **admin** » Tue Jan 02, 2001 8:02 am

Was Tony Hatch a musician and if so did he ever record before producing The Searchers? I am interesting in pursuing the original question possed, that is, did he participate in The Searchers music to the extent that George Martin did for The Beatles? My sense is that it would be an overstatement to refer to him as a fifth Searcher, but I wanted to explore the available evidence before making this bold statement. What do you think?

scouser · Post by **scouser** » Thu Mar 15, 2001 11:41 am

Tony Hatch was a staff producer for PYE. Unfortunately, he was also our producer (The Undertakers) and failed miserably with his lack of sensitivity to our music. We had an incredible 'live' following and yet, on three different singles, he failed to take into consideration our reports as to what our audiences were requesting. This resulted in us having 'B' sides go out as 'A' sides.

In retrospect, I just don't think he got it! He didn't grasp what was happening on Merseyside. I maybe a little harsh... but there it is...

admin · Post by **admin** » Fri Mar 16, 2001 4:38 am

Chris: Based on your characterization of Tony, this would placed him well back in the running as the 5th Searcher. Did he have the final say then about what went out?

scouser · Post by **scouser** » Fri Mar 16, 2001 5:36 am

Peter,

The Undertakers recording experiences, at PYE, might shed some light on this subject. On our first trip to London to record we were met, upon arrival at the studios - which were in the basement of ATV house - by engineers in white lab coats. They proceeded to tell us were to stand after which they went about tweaking the volume and tone controls of our amps. In about the first 30 minutes of the session they had succeeded in taking out of our music just about everything that we were signed to a recording contract for - our sound and our excitement, not to mention our confidence. In retrospect, it was a simple case of the process of recording being more important than the music itself!

We were never invited to the 'mix' and, although we were informed sometimes weeks later, what the single was to be, we had to wait for the records to come out to hear what they sounded like. We never received acetates of the mixes or even advanced copies of the pressing. I think that it would be safe to say that, in our case at least, there was no artistic control what-so-ever.

I suppose that the real questions to be answered revolve around the premise of whether this MerseyBeat fad was being taken seriously, at the time? Certainly, most of it did not fit of the accepted criteria for the "safe" pop music that the BBC deemed to play. Plus Liverpool was a most unlikely place for anything musically creative to ever come out of. Food for thought!