I believe an earlier post (within this thread) by Mr. Hall states that he kicked that posting over to RIC's legal eagles.
I suspect that they took immediate action to invalidate/pull the auction listing.
Naked 4001 on the Bay
Moderators: rickenbrother, ajish4
Well I e-mailed tha seller about seeing the bass in person. He lives about 15 minutes from me so I went to have a look. He's actually very nice guy and we ended up talking about music and such for quite awile. I completely believe his story about where he got it. All the while I was trying to remove one of the truss rods to check it's authenticity. First of all there was no aluminum bar joining the rods. There were a pair of stepped washers that appeared to perform the same purpose. All I could see were the threaded ends though. The upper load bearing portion was either too far down the cavity or it was just a single threaded rod running the length of the neck. At the other end I could see what appeared to be the same washers imbedded between the fingerboard and neck with a bit of rod poking through. I was baffled as to how this would work. Could it be an experiment to find another truss rod system? I just don't know and neither did he. The whole surface of the bass was not finish sanded and the checkered binding had yet to be scraped. The tilt back of the headstock was the same shallow angle as all early Ricks and the inlays appeared to be the same lightly swirled pearl material. It was fretted but they appeared not to have been dressed yet. It was definitely interesting as I didn't take my hands off of it the whole time I was there. The auction was pulled by eBay due to the use of the Rickenbacker name without verification that it was indeed a Rick. Also ,if it wasn't a RIC product, it definitely was infringing on their copyright which he completely understood once I explained RIC's unique posession of all things RIC looking. Anyway that's it. I was almost convinced except for the truss rods. He probably wont re-list it but may consider one of the many offers he's received on the side.
WOW! Does anyone know what ever happened with this one? That is a facinating find. The project possibilities are endless with something like this.
I understand that all kinds of non-standard things left the factory over the years. I suppose someone could have even ordered the bass like that. Maybe it was a friend or employee deal. Who knows? I seem to remember that someone bought the unassembled parts for a custom doubleneck back in the 60's. The instrument was then assembled and finished by the customer. That instrument is considered to be a genuine Rickenbacker. (Smith 215)
Don't the statutes of limitations clocks begin, in criminal cases, at the time the actual crime is committed and in civil cases at the time when the injured party is first able to take legal action? If so, the California statue of limitations on theft would apply here making this a legal non issue. Besides, I am guessing theft of a fairly unremarkable item would be hard to prove 25 or 30 years after the fact.
I understand that all kinds of non-standard things left the factory over the years. I suppose someone could have even ordered the bass like that. Maybe it was a friend or employee deal. Who knows? I seem to remember that someone bought the unassembled parts for a custom doubleneck back in the 60's. The instrument was then assembled and finished by the customer. That instrument is considered to be a genuine Rickenbacker. (Smith 215)
Don't the statutes of limitations clocks begin, in criminal cases, at the time the actual crime is committed and in civil cases at the time when the injured party is first able to take legal action? If so, the California statue of limitations on theft would apply here making this a legal non issue. Besides, I am guessing theft of a fairly unremarkable item would be hard to prove 25 or 30 years after the fact.
Ted, The crime/and or infringing was committed when he offered it for sale, don't you think?
Saying that it was a Rickenbacker, and it looks like a Rickenbacker..Does he have a receipt?How can he prove he got it?My luthier can make something that looks EXACTLY like that very easily.
Personally, I don't think this guy expected such an uproar when he tried to sell it. His opening ask was $200 and he mentioned no one should ask him to go lower.
After all the responses, he's probably sure he has some kind of collector's item. I had interest in it to use as a project, but glad I stayed away for two reasonsns.
First, I don't know how to do the routing so that would have been expensive and two, the neck has never had tension on it,(if you believe when he got it),for over 30 years.
If you could prove it was legitimate Rickenbacker and had legally, it would best be left alone as a collector's item.Hopefully he's just keeping it and sharing the stories about it with friends and family.
Saying that it was a Rickenbacker, and it looks like a Rickenbacker..Does he have a receipt?How can he prove he got it?My luthier can make something that looks EXACTLY like that very easily.
Personally, I don't think this guy expected such an uproar when he tried to sell it. His opening ask was $200 and he mentioned no one should ask him to go lower.
After all the responses, he's probably sure he has some kind of collector's item. I had interest in it to use as a project, but glad I stayed away for two reasonsns.
First, I don't know how to do the routing so that would have been expensive and two, the neck has never had tension on it,(if you believe when he got it),for over 30 years.
If you could prove it was legitimate Rickenbacker and had legally, it would best be left alone as a collector's item.Hopefully he's just keeping it and sharing the stories about it with friends and family.
" It's not where you are, it's who you're with.".
You are right. The thing might be stolen. But on the other hand it might be totally legit and the seller was deprived of his right to sell it simply because it does not fit today's notion of legitamacy. I have read accounts of former Ric employees who say that one-off instruments and employee projects were very common in the 70's. The Internet and eBay in particular are bringing things like this to our attention for the first time. I am sure that more instruments like this will surface as closets across America are emptied and old collections are dissolved. I suspect that not even JH knew everything that went on in the factory back then (or FH for that matter). Future items like this bass should definately be viewed with a skeptical eye. They should not however, be catagorically dismissed as fake or stolen just because they are different. Further, the sellers should not be treated like a criminals just for offering it. If there was not a factory invoice on hand for that 1961 doubleneck (Smith 215) and it appeared on eBay today, how would it be received? Judging by this response, not very well. Anyone who has ever sought production totals for a Rick model knows that record keeping at Rickenbacker was never a strict or predictable process. JH has said that there are boxes of records that have never been sorted out and counted. Maybe there is an invoice in some dusty old box in the factory that says that Joe Blow of California bought an unfinshed, unrouted 4001 in 1974. Who knows?
-
ken_swearingen
- Advanced Member
- Posts: 2298
- Joined: Wed Mar 31, 2004 6:00 pm
i agree with ted i think it's a neat thing kind'a like finding a time capsole i visited the factory in the mid 80s brian carmon gave me a tour not something they did then ,no museum small place i can understand the wait time for a new rick,i can see how easy it would have been [in the early 70s]for any one that worked there to walk off with something like that im sure it was very common excuse my spelling its terrible.
-
ken_swearingen
- Advanced Member
- Posts: 2298
- Joined: Wed Mar 31, 2004 6:00 pm
This item WAS stolen and it's NOT a Rickenbacker until WE finish it and WE put our name on it.
Clear enough?
The thief was the son of the chief of police in a local city. Under those circumstances, our police department that handled this was unwilling to obtain a search warrant even when everyone knew the specific garage in which the instrument was located.
This was all many years ago now but we've still got an open file on this.
Clear enough?
The thief was the son of the chief of police in a local city. Under those circumstances, our police department that handled this was unwilling to obtain a search warrant even when everyone knew the specific garage in which the instrument was located.
This was all many years ago now but we've still got an open file on this.
-
jeff_ulmer
- Intermediate Member
- Posts: 873
- Joined: Sat Jan 18, 2003 6:00 am
- Contact: