4003 Set Up - Can't Find My Way Home

[prestoj]

My apologies in advance if this is retreading of old ground, but my thread searches on this forum and on the Rickenbacker site have not yielded any definitive results.

I was able to pick up a 2008 FG 4003 back in January, and I have the membership of this forum to thank for that (thanks again). Here's my issue: after tweaking the factory set up a bit to decrease neck relief and to get a little more E string (guided by Joey's Notes), I apparently have adjusted all of the sustain out of the A and G strings.

Although possible, I'm fairly sure that the strings are not dead as I've only had the bass since January and I'm obsessive with keeping my guitars clean. In the present set up, I have some sustain (I think there should be a bit more) on the E, a little less on the A, almost none on the D and zero on G. This applies to open string notes and up to the twelfth fret. I've tried adjusting the individual pickup poles as well as tweaking the pickup and bridge heights. Holding my ear to the guitar body while plucking the strings, there is good resonance.

I did find a link to the John Hall procedure for beefing up a weak E (I believe Joey Vasco posted it), but I thought I'd see if any fellow forum members have had similar difficulties and what steps they might have had success with before continuing on. Thanks in advance.

Jack.

[jps]

Make sure the foam mute has not "crept" up to the strings. From your description it seems that, perhaps, the G D side may be touching the strings.

[prestoj]

Outstanding!!!! Not only had the foam mutes "crept" up, I had raised the bridge sufficient to very firmly nestle all of the strings (D and G most deeply) into a very snug furrow down the longitudinal axis of each of the pads. I now have a much improved sustain (10 sec +) on all of the strings............even get a nice ring when hammering at the 20th fret (not that my playing requires that particular note).

I've never been one to let a lack of experience stop me from trying something, so I expect further additions to this thread may help me understand yet more mistakes that I have made in working on my set up.......so I'll continue to watch. But for now, I am very happy with the results of correcting the very condition you pointed out.

Drop me a note if you ever find yourself travelling in the Williamsburg, Virginia area. Pops in the pub are on me........thanks much.

Cheers........Jack.

[jps]

[FretlessOnly]

Always nice to see a simple solution to a problem. Since you asked about other potential issues, I'll add a few things I've observed:

1. On Ricks, the neck should be dead flat. This is to obtain the best action, tone and sustain. But, I removed some relief from my 4003FL and had it where it tested dead flat to me (finger first and last fret of the E string, and just be able to slide a business card under string at 7th or 8th fret), but I lost my fifth "fret" harmonics. Simply loosening the truss rods about 1/8 of a turn (to the left) brought the harmonics right back.

2. Look for a dead spot on the D string, 9th or 10th fret. Not in volume, but in sustain. Tweaking both rods to move the harmonic vibration of the neck to a spot inbetween is the best way to deal with this (but it's not simple; it takes a bit of time or luck).

3. Vibrating/buzzing truss rods. When I play certain double stops, the truss rods buzz like crazy. Apparently, the use of olefin-coated rods has eliminated this problem, but Rick didn't start using the coated rods until late 2008. Instead, they used masking tape for a few years up until late 2008. Mine still buzz.

4 Bridge position: make sure that the bridge is pushed up against the muting assembly and ends up parallel to the body (not sloped back toward the tailpiece). You'll get better sustain, a constant position for intonation once it's set, and you'll have better access to the intonation adjustment screws.

Just some things I've learned from the folks here; thought they'd be good in one place.

[ricnbacker]

Jack Said

I've never been one to let a lack of experience stop me from trying something

Me either except for my Ric.....

[cassius987]

John, see if you can buy some heat shrink (polyolefin/polyalkene) truss rods from RIC or if you can do your own... I had them put some in mine and it eliminated 90% of my issues with unwanted noise. The only thing left behind is that annoying dead spot--it did not affect that at all.

[woodyng]

john said 3. Vibrating/buzzing truss rods. When I play certain double stops, the truss rods buzz like crazy. Apparently, the use of olefin-coated rods has eliminated this problem, but Rick didn't start using the coated rods until late 2008. Instead, they used masking tape for a few years up until late 2008. Mine still buzz.

that is interesting. i have noticed the same issue not only on my 74 4000,but on the 2004 cii (to a less extent). there are certain notes or playing positions where the truss rods will rattle,which made me wonder if they needed adjusting in spite of the fact that the necks are both dead straight....plus it seems to go away if i am standing instead of sitting.....

[FretlessOnly]

Hey Joshua: I actually have the 3/16" tubing I need, I just haven't gotten around to removing the rods and installing it. I also got a bit spooked when John Hall indicated that "hope that the masking tape doesn't tear and get stuck in the channels. This is a real mess." Several folks here have assured me that it can be solved OK, but I haven't yet gotten around to it.

Woody: Not to sound nit-picky, but do your rods rattle or buzz? I differentiate between the two; rattle implies that they are loose in the channels and need to be tightened, and this may be sufficient to solve the problem. Buzz implies that they are at an appropriate tension, but are experiencing sympathetic vibration. All of my buzzes are located in a rather small area from the 6th to the 10th "fret," and only occur when doing double-stops. Bb on the E string and D on the G string; C on the E string and Bb, B-nat or C on the D string; F# on the A string and D on the G string.

[cassius987]

...plus it seems to go away if i am standing instead of sitting.....

This is a fascinating part of bass playing. Here's another example: when I play my fretless on its "dead note" while letting it lie in its case, the note (pushed into the padding material) resonates loud and clear--and is actually amplified! Similarly, it is ameliorated a bit when the bass is tight against my body when standing (I wear basses almost to my chest when playing, the position in my avatar is rather low for me). Sitting down, it has little to resonate on, and is at its worst. So I think that extra (detached) mass to either stabilize the wood against hyperflexion or increase resonance has an interesting effect on these things.

[prestoj]

John, Thanks for the observations..............I'll file you list in my guitar maintenance folder and check each of the items you point out. I particularly appreciate your specificity as I have some hearing loss and moderate tinnitus. Sometimes I do not hear subtle variations or "background noises" unless I am keying into them.

I've not noticed any truss rod vibration/buzz, but now I'll look for it. My Ric was made in October of '08, so it may well have the new style truss rods. Point also taken on the bridge position. I actually had to remove mine to free up the intonation screws when checking string intonation.

Thanks again....Jack

[woodyng]

yes mine is defintely a loose rattling (and unpleasant) sound when it happens. also strangely,i have not noticed it coming through the amp,but when playing unplugged it's quite loud. it also only tends to occur when i play chords/doublestops about mid neck. (but i love those!) since it's unnoticeable through the amp (or possibly i just like the sympathetic sound),i am not stressed......

[jps]

yes mine is defintely a loose rattling (and unpleasant) sound when it happens. also strangely,i have not noticed it coming through the amp,but when playing unplugged it's quite loud. it also only tends to occur when i play chords/doublestops about mid neck. (but i love those!) since it's unnoticeable through the amp (or possibly i just like the sympathetic sound),i am not stressed......

I have noticed this happening with double stops on various instruments and have found the problem to really be one of the strings between the nut and my finger rattling against the frets, probably due to sympathetic vibrations. Check that out to eliminate it as a possibility.

[FretlessOnly]

Well, notwithstanding my one fretted bass that doesn't have this issue, my 4003FL and my fretless Jazz bass do exactly what woody is referring to. Although I would call it sympathetic buzz, not rattle, as rattle implies "loose."

[jps]

That could be the strings "buzzing" against the fingerboard, as opposed to frets, perhaps.