21 or 24 frets ?

axel · Post by **axel** » Mon Mar 19, 2001 7:50 am

Since I'm going to purchase a third Ric, I'd like to know if 330's always had 24 frets. Mark the MD has said around here that he prefered the 21fret necks because it put the neck PU on a sweeter spot than one with 24 frets and it's something I've noticed when comparing the sound of my 620 vs my 360, but apparently 330s now only come with 24 fret necks - am I wrong or did they, once, come with "standard" necks ?
Thanks again.
axel

markthemd · Post by **markthemd** » Mon Mar 19, 2001 10:58 am

No up until about 1974 or 75 they all came with 21 fret necks.That is when we all thought ..."OOH,cool,24 frets ,now I can just fret that high E.

Ibanez sort of lead the pack following Alembics lead .Then lots of other companies followed suit.Gibson did it ,Fender never did!

axel · Post by **axel** » Mon Mar 19, 2001 12:04 pm

Then I guess I'll have to buy a Fender... just kidding. I'll settle with the 24 - although it's true that not many people (bar Malmsteen) spend a lot of time fretting wild up there, let alone chording...
Maybe I could get my hands on a 360 "OS" reissue (or WB, or WBBS etc). I remember when I was recording a lot that I could get even more variations out of my 620 than the 360 when plugged in the Boogie Quad - since I start recording again, I'd like to get that but with the feel/body size of a 360 + its resonance... I'm too used to that shape (and sound, and neck etc to use anything else.)
Mark, would I get that if I purchased one of those ?
so much time you spend answering all this
thanks

(also I'd like if you've ever met Paul Kantner but I guess I should post this sowhere else)

Teleologist · Post by **Teleologist** » Mon Mar 19, 2001 1:14 pm

I don't think the 24 fret Rics are all that bad. Having the neck PUP closer the bridge brightenes it up some and that's not a bad thing with the HiGains. The PUPs are narrow and stuck right up against the end of the neck so it doesn't start having those Strat-like overtones like some 24 fret guitars with full sized humbuckers.

FWIW Fenders aren't all that great either. Teles have the neck PUP right at the node where the 24th fret would be so there's no 5th fret harmonics. Strats have it just close enough to cause Stratitis. The old Ric spacing looks like it's about where the 23rd fret would be, but I'd guess they were all put where they are by accident.

markthemd · Post by **markthemd** » Mon Mar 19, 2001 1:57 pm

I use to work on Paul Kantner's guitars all the time in the late 1970's .It started with his Rick 12strings ,the his Fenders ,I put together a few Schecter kit guitars .I also worked on everyones stuff in the Jeff.Starship at that time .

I did up a couple of Tele's for Marty and Chaquico's LP's and a kit pre CBS strat that Skip Johnson bought Craig.
I worked on all kinds of guitars for them ...period.

axel · Post by **axel** » Mon Mar 19, 2001 11:01 pm

Thanks Teleologist. Maybe you think it's heresy but I use two HB1 on my 360 so it's a "darker" guitar anyway. I've kept the Hi-Gains on the 620 - for the moment. Not easy in France to get two Rics in the same shop and make direct comparison, let alone unusual ones or vintage reissues... I have an old Tele (50s blonde fashion and frets, great sound) but I rarely use it because the neck is so different than Rickies - and I've never had a Strat.
For sure most of these specs came up by accident or purely cosmetic design - quite fascinating.

(Sorry, I'll drop the Kantner thing -although I'm a big Airplane and early Hot Tuna fan. I wasn't so much asking this for guitars but much more about the person. But I guess that is exactly why you say "...period".)

Teleologist · Post by **Teleologist** » Tue Mar 20, 2001 4:08 am

If HB1's are the Ric mini-buckers I have 'em too - in a modern 360/OS. One thing that really helped brighten mine up was changing all the vol & tone pots to 500K. Some that came out measured as low as 185K. Fender has solid-shaft 250K and 500K CTS pots for Teles as accessory parts. They fit just fine in a Ric, no cutting or filing required. I'm not sure what values Ric uses when mini-buckers come on the guitar from the factory, mine were added later. With 10-46 GHS Burnished Nickel Roundwound strings mine growls and snarls just like an old Gibson with P90s. Great surf sounds too. Half the time I even find myself turning down the tone controls a bit.

My buckers came with 4 conductor(plus shield) wiring, so I also replaced the 5th knob with a PRS-like rotary switch and wired it for coils within the PUPs in series or parallel with the PUPs in or out of phase. The Ric buckers are hot enough to run parallel and the sound is similar to being tapped but they're still humbucking that way. The out-of-phase sounds are interesting too. This is one of my most versatile guitars - it'll even do everything from jazz, to surf, to heavy metal

Teleologist · Post by **Teleologist** » Tue Mar 20, 2001 4:21 am

Mark, have you ever tried rewiring a RIC so the pickup selector switch is after the vol & tone controls and before the output jacks? That would take the unused volume and tone pots out of the circuit in the single PUP positions.

Speaking of the Airplane, did you also work on Jorma's ES345s and/or do you know if and how they were converted to mono(i.e. completely rewired like an ES335 or ???).

axel · Post by **axel** » Tue Mar 20, 2001 5:42 am

Thanks for the info - I'm not familiar with this 4 conductors thing but will very very probably get into it to make this 360, as you say, most versatile. My tech should be able to do so if I were to give him the wiring diagram 'n all that...
Could you give me some tips on how you rewired everything in there ? - your setup seems quite promising.
(As for Jorma - he is my favorite guitarist ; ditto on Casady for bass.)

markthemd · Post by **markthemd** » Tue Mar 20, 2001 1:11 pm

Casady is the god of bass to me ...I still am amazed at what he played ,on what he used ,and the tone he got from flat wound strings.

I never worked on either Jacks or Jorma's stuff except one ....and Don Ruis had it .It was a Jazz Bass that Glen Quan had put jazz bass pickup after pickup from the neck to the bridge.This had a slider connector to activate which coil was on.
Sort of a sliding pickup ,except it was loaded with pickups.
I was asked why it would not stay in tune ....The body needed a truss rod system,no wood left and it was curling.

markthemd · Post by **markthemd** » Tue Mar 20, 2001 1:15 pm

As to have I met any of them ,YES!

Paul used to hang out in the shop,Chaquico used to ride his gas skate board into the shop,Sears and Freiberg came by all the time.Papa John tried all kinds of pickup systems (he played LOUD!)
Ansley Dunbar had the best stories,Micki Thomas and I used to play Backgammon together ,Skip Johnson would tell me KISS stories (He was married to Grace and was the pyro master /light master for KISS) Paul Dowell would come drop off gear,Geoff Grace lived down the street.Shall I go on?

axel · Post by **axel** » Tue Mar 20, 2001 1:44 pm

about Grace you could go on and go on and go on - she has the most haunting voice (remember "Lather" ?) about Freiberg too (some stuff he did at very end of the Airplane still amaze me ("Thunk" for one, wild harmonies) and, of course Jorma and Jack
please go on

markthemd · Post by **markthemd** » Tue Mar 20, 2001 2:46 pm

Thunk was Joey Covington,David was still on the sidelines at that point ...waiting for another Kantner -Starship/Sunfighter session.

Jack on side two of the Blows LP/CD WOW!!!!

rick12dr · Post by **rick12dr** » Tue Mar 20, 2001 4:32 pm

You had to go and mention Jack, didn't you? You Know what that does to me....and he's not even a Rick user....

axel · Post by **axel** » Tue Mar 20, 2001 10:35 pm

Sorry, yes, that was Covington. I got plenty of boots and rare original editions - I'm currently restoring one live LP from late 69. This one was speeded up so the whole concert would fit on two sides only... I'll send you a copy when I'm done with it if you want.
axel