Knock-Offs, Rip-Offs, and Just Plain UGLY!

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shamustwin
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Re: Knock-Offs, Rip-Offs, and Just Plain UGLY!

Post by shamustwin »

We hear that a lot in L.A., "Lawrence, Kansas - a hotbed of liberalism"! :lol:
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Re: Knock-Offs, Rip-Offs, and Just Plain UGLY!

Post by jimk »

Image
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Yeah,.... right.
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That, and basketball, too.Image
(wiping my eyes,)

JimKGod! I'm so glad I'm a native Oregonian!
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Re: Knock-Offs, Rip-Offs, and Just Plain UGLY!

Post by whojamfan »

Hey folks, you get what you pay for.

When a trash collector is paid more than a teacher, what can we really expect? People of authority are now just figureheads, with no real power in these schools to do anything. I remember when a trip to the principals office meant your backside was in for it. Funny, I didn't die or get some horrible mental condition from it, and amazingly, was never interested in doing what I did to get there in the first place again.

2 working parents and latch key kids are in their 3rd decade of being more common than not, and education has taken a backseat to lightning fast media devices. If the child can communicate and pass English exams, that's really all the average working class and poor families can ask. Institutions of higher education are out of reach to all but the rich, military service bills, or those who wish to go in to debt with student loans they will still be paying off when they retire. Trade schools and community colleges are at their all time high attendance wise, as the long term committment of a PhD is a desirable as an old Space Invaders game.

Up about untill the time Nixon was in office, the majority of families had only 1 parent that worked, while the other had an active role in their children's education and development. Parents could pass down to and encourage their children to strive for knowledge, refine their communication skills, and be somewhat versed in social etiquette. When it's not passed down by generations, the future ones can see it as obsolete, or just silly nostalgia.

I think that there is a million and one ways to intellectually break down who the culprits behind this regression are, but you can't build a house without a foundation. Unfortunately, with the drastic increase of the cost of living, most young couples today can't afford to make sure Johnny and Sally can understand the words their grandparents used and understood. Is it a shame, you bet, but the root of the problem is the biggest shame in my book.
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johnallg
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Re: Knock-Offs, Rip-Offs, and Just Plain UGLY!

Post by johnallg »

Mike, there is a fourth path to higher education - sports. Considering there are over 380,000 student-athletes in the NCAA with only 1% going pro - the rest earn their education and door to their future through sweat and hard effort.
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Re: Knock-Offs, Rip-Offs, and Just Plain UGLY!

Post by whojamfan »

Duh, how could I forget that one, so very true, and the only hope to so many young people.
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Re: Knock-Offs, Rip-Offs, and Just Plain UGLY!

Post by jingle_jangle »

...in which case, we're becoming more like a Third World country every year--the quick tix to $$$ being sports and music, and education falls by the wayside. 'Bye to being a polyglot or even an autodidact...when money is in the bank, intellectual curiosity goes out the window. Our heroes are semi-literate and offer nothing lasting for young people to admire.
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Re: Knock-Offs, Rip-Offs, and Just Plain UGLY!

Post by johnallg »

jingle_jangle wrote:...in which case, we're becoming more like a Third World country every year--the quick tix to $$$ being sports and music, and education falls by the wayside. 'Bye to being a polyglot or even an autodidact...when money is in the bank, intellectual curiosity goes out the window. Our heroes are semi-literate and offer nothing lasting for young people to admire.
Re-read my post, Paul. Only 1% of the 380,000 athletes become pros and a great less than that the ones you talk of. Most all pros do not pull the outrageous contracts of which you speak (and I agree!). Most are admirable pro athletes, they just don't garner headlines or interviews. It is the elite few of each sport that unfortunately are the heros and looked up to, while leading less than stellar lives.

Mike - my two daughters worked their way through 4 year degrees with volleyball. One is still going to post-grad on her brains to get her doctorate in astrophysics. She's only paid post-grad books but has earned over a quarter million dollars in her educational career from her skills and brains. And she is not the exception.
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Re: Knock-Offs, Rip-Offs, and Just Plain UGLY!

Post by jingle_jangle »

I think I'm referring more to youth perception--those of disadvantaged backgrounds--of the key to financial success. I, too have a daughter (she's just turned 39) who stayed in college until she was 30, earning a BA at Santa Cruz, an MA at Fletcher (Tufts), and a second MA at INSEAD in Fontainbleu, France. She's married, living in Madrid, and commuting to Casablanca weekly, where her current consultancy is based. Your daughter and mine are classic middle-class USA success stories, and of course we're proud papas.

This type of thing is beyond the comprehension of a majority of disadvantaged youth...it's almost beyond my own comprehension. Young, poor kids see hip hop artists and sports stars as their heroes. Yep, pros are less than 1% of athletes, but they've got 99% of the attention and hero-worship, and lots of kids pattern their lives and outlooks after these people, not to mention taste (or lack thereof), speech patterns, ,and so on.

No question, unless a youngster has world-class exceptional natural talent for music or sports, it's a mug's game, and common sense would direct him/her to a real, solid career requiring a traditional education. But, lacking good adult role models and advice, common sense is hard to summon when shiny chrome, gold and Franklins beckon.
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Re: Knock-Offs, Rip-Offs, and Just Plain UGLY!

Post by jakeox »

You guys realize that as a nation we are far more educated than we've ever been? There's always plenty of room for improvement (and working in educational research, believe me, can be depressing) but more and more people are going to college and getting degrees every year.

There are plenty of disparities, but the overall level of access to higher education keeps improving.
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Re: Knock-Offs, Rip-Offs, and Just Plain UGLY!

Post by kiramdear »

Maybe they are graduating in greater numbers, due perhaps to the population boom, but no way can anyone convince me that Americans are more literate than they used to be. No way. Whatever they are studying in there, job training, perhaps, has not taught the majority of them to even master their native tongue.
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Re: Knock-Offs, Rip-Offs, and Just Plain UGLY!

Post by jingle_jangle »

jakeox wrote:You guys realize that as a nation we are far more educated than we've ever been? There's always plenty of room for improvement (and working in educational research, believe me, can be depressing) but more and more people are going to college and getting degrees every year.

There are plenty of disparities, but the overall level of access to higher education keeps improving.
Maybe access is improving (my guts tell me, not, judging from what I'm hearing around my own university), but level of literacy is not, nor is training of critical thinking. Everytime I assign a simple critical of biographical paper to young men and women in their 20s, I can see the pain on their faces. They think that, somehow, because they are studying design, they don't need to know how to express themselves in writing. I've heard more than once, "I did enough of this in high school!".

The papers I typically get back are varied in their grasp of the subject matter and level of lucidity, but on average they are at what was an eighth-grade-level when I was in school, back When Dinosaurs Ruled The Earth.

Anyone who does any online reading can see this.

I was in the mail order business for years before the 'net came to be, and the notes and letters that came in with orders were generally poorly-written. Some were downright undecipherable. If things have changed since the '70s, it is not for the better.

Principles of basic written English, once part of a second grade education, are usually (not often, but usually) ignored and/or missing from simple statements, making a challenging task (that of deciphering a writer's mood without visual or verbal cues) even tougher, and leading to miscommunication and the inevitable misunderstandings when the output of our ductless glands are dripped into the brew.
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Re: Knock-Offs, Rip-Offs, and Just Plain UGLY!

Post by wayang »

Here's where I started college in 1973...one of the biggest mistakes of my life. This is excerpted from a Sports Illustrated article from 1977...the year I would've graduated, but I couldn't take it and left after one year:

School Of Soft Knocks
Overlooking Malibu's movie colony, Pepperdine University sparkles like a country club. Only problem: critics fear it may also be overlooking study for sport

Dr. William S. Banowsky, the athletically built 41-year-old president of Pepperdine University, gestures at a vista that includes school buildings, mountains, stars, big-city lights and the Pacific Ocean. He is about to respond to a question that has to do with hypocrisy—a practice that Pepperdine has lately been accused of. Indeed, in recent years Pepperdine has been accused of many things, including willfully turning itself into a sports factory at the expense of loftier educational goals.

"Look out there," Banowsky says grandly. "The lights of Los Angeles and Malibu against the ocean—absolutely spectacular, isn't it? I've been to a lot of places. I was at the French Riviera last summer, but it can't compare with this. Our land here goes from sea level to 1,700 feet. That development property off to the right is divided into half-acre lots, and each lot goes for between $60,000 and $100,000. This is the most beautiful place in the world."

As a minister in the Church of Christ, a columnist for the Los Angeles Herald Examiner and a former Republican National Committeeman from California, Banowsky is well versed in the meaning and usage of words. His reply, evasive as it may seem, approaches policy at this posh Southern California university: when in doubt, show them the campus.

It is true that the school is visually stimulating to the point of making one forget hard realities. Everything is clean and vivid. The students are the embodiment of good taste. There are no campus guerrillas, no wild-eyed poets, no Indian headbands, no unbuttoned shirts. "I would say the basic Pepperdine student is a middle- to upper-middle-class white who is not too intellectual, owns his own car and is sort of wanting to bust out," says student newspaper editor Don Risolo. "The males are about six feet tall, tan, with blond hair and mustaches. The girls are fashion-conscious, good-looking, chic and tend to wear tight slacks." Because everyone lives, eats and socializes with everyone else, and because most Pepperdine students are active in intramural and beach sports, the appearance of the student body is one of decided healthiness.

The vision of wholesomeness is somewhat deceptive, however, for in recent years Pepperdine has been beset by a number of internal problems, which caused President Banowsky to occasionally show people the campus rather than respond to their questions.

There have been problems with money (as a result of a vociferous protest, professors received a small salary increase for 1976-77; the school was investigated by the State Attorney General's office for alleged improper funding and shady financial deals, but later cleared) and there has been criticism for "abandoning" the original Los Angeles campus following the move to Malibu in 1972. And there are those who are unhappy about the athletic escalation.

In the 4 years it has been at Malibu, Pepperdine's success in sports has been phenomenal. The 1975-76 basketball team, led by 6'10" Brazilian Marcos Leite, had a 22-6 record, won the conference title and made it to the West Regionals of the NCAA championship before losing to UCLA.

Pepperdine's athletic achievements are even more amazing when one considers that the enrollment at Malibu is a mere 1,834, and only 886 are men. "We're really like most other small colleges," says Sports Information Director Bob Rose, a 1975 graduate of the school, "except that our athletics are way out of line."

But even a campus in paradise can't be a guarantee of athletic success these days, and Pepperdine is quick to point out other favorable factors. "I don't believe we've ever cheated in any sport to get an athlete." says Basketball Coach Gary Colson. "But I do think we have one of the best coaching staffs in the entire country."

Pepperdine also has fine facilities—the sparkling field house, a 50-meter outdoor pool (not to mention the beach), and playing fields as immaculate as putting greens. In addition, it is near a vast recruiting area and has the funds—$600,000 spent annually on sports, without the need to support a high-budget football program. "We had a football team until 1961," says Athletic Director Wayne Wright, "but I doubt if we'll ever have one again. We don't need one."

The seed for this tiny athletic powerhouse was planted in the social tumult of the '60s. When Watts exploded in race riots in 1965, the bordering Los Angeles campus of Pepperdine was adversely affected. "We never got over the shock of having been in the middle of things during the riots." says Banowsky. "The area changed, and the brethren in Bakersfield were just not going to send their children to that campus." Clearly, a new campus was in order, and when a donor offered 138 free acres of prime Malibu property. Pepperdine snapped it up.

The new campus opened to much fanfare and not a little criticism. Environmentalists were angry because three million cubic yards of dirt had been moved to provide the setting; hills were leveled and ravines rerouted. Local residents were upset by the 125-foot tower featuring an illuminated cross that shone over the entire coast. Critics managed to get most of the lights toned down. Black civic leaders were indignant because they felt the school was bailing out of its social commitment to the community around the original L.A. campus. Indeed, since the move the L.A. campus has deteriorated even further. Students have complained of rats in the cafeteria, and there have been reports of prostitution and drug sales on the campus.

In contrast, the Malibu campus shines like a jewel. Further acquisitions have brought the land holdings to 623 acres, and total university assets are up from $7.8 million in 1967 to $70 million today. Construction is just getting started on the new Pepperdine law school, and tennis courts, parking lots and other amenities are being built. "The conservative religious angle," says Bob Rose in a not-too-reverent tone, "it's great for getting money."

It is less great in getting satisfied students. Only 15% to 20% of the Pepperdine students are Church of Christ members, but everyone must follow certain church-oriented rules, and these have a tendency to chafe. No dancing is permitted on campus, and smoking is allowed only in bedrooms and rest rooms. Drinking is taboo, and even empty liquor bottles are forbidden in dorm rooms. (Rose spent one December afternoon cutting the last page out of every one of this season's basketball programs when the administration discovered it carried an ad from a California winemaker.) A dress code that does not allow halter tops, bare feet or beach wear in the academic area is strictly enforced. There are no coed dorms, and a 1 a.m. curfew (2 a.m. on weekends) is strongly suggested for the 1,000 students who live on campus. Further, all students, athletes included, are required to take two religion courses and to attend chapel twice a week. Combined with the natural surroundings, the warm weather and the elegant Mediterranean-style architecture, the atmosphere at Pepperdine is a somewhat paradoxical one. "It is strange," says newspaper editor Risolo, "but in all my columns I always end up referring to this place as a 'resort monastery.' "

Though a good many students find the school regulations too restrictive and leave after a year or two, the athletes, by and large, do not.

Colson is one of the reasons Pepperdine athletes are basically content. A lean, blue-eyed man, the basketball coach hails from the Deep South and has the easygoing, street-wise demeanor of a citified good ole boy. Raised in tiny Dasher, Ga. ("It's 100 miles from Plains, but it's so small it's only there three days a week"), he played on a state championship high school basketball team whose home court was made of clay. He went on to play ball at David Lipscomb College in Nashville, a Church of Christ-affiliated school, where he met and roomed with fellow student William Banowsky, then a slugging catcher on the baseball team.

After a 10-year stint as head coach at Valdosta State (Ga.), Colson came to Pepperdine in 1968, where he encountered, among other things, a losing basketball team, crumbling facilities and a great deal of culture shock. "In 10 years at Valdosta we'd had only one black on the basketball team," says Colson, "and people weren't too happy even about that. Coming to L.A. and spending four years in the ghetto was the greatest thing in the world for me; it was worth a master's degree."

Soon Colson found he liked other aspects of Southern California life as well. Recently remarried to a 23-year-old former Pepperdine coed, he owns a motorcycle, drives a Mercedes, keeps a houseboat in Marina Del Rey and cavorts with his best friend, Laker Coach Jerry West, 'it's a dream," he says. "I'll be in the coffee shop over here in Malibu and Barbra Streisand will walk in and I'll go cuckoo. I'm 42 years old and I'm still in awe."

The next superstar was Leite, the Brazilian who led Pepperdine in scoring and rebounding in 1975-76, the school's best season since 1952, when it was 20-4. Pepperdine was 27-8 in 1946, but the opposition included such notables as Corona Naval and Twentieth Century-Fox. In 1975-76 Pepperdine upset the University of Nevada, Las Vegas when it was undefeated and third-ranked in the nation and beat San Francisco on the Dons' home court for the WCAC title.

Leite, who was the second-leading scorer in the 1972 Olympics and is now a pro in Europe, came to Pepperdine because he was seeking a small American college that played against major competition. With Leite leading the Pepperdine attack, Colson claims the only problem on court was one of communication. "Marcos spoke English," he says, "but you know how it is when everybody is excited at a game. The language has a tendency to get a little blurred and, well, colorful. So we got hold of a Bolivian tennis player for the games; he would sit on the bench with us and act as a translator. It was sort of funny, because at halftime we used to chew out the tennis player."

Colson says he'd like to latch on to some more Brazilians, but the days of fast-selling, late-night visits to the campus and designated shooters are happily at an end. With the retirement of legendary UCLA Coach John Wooden, Los Angeles became an open city for recruiting. "We can recruit head to head with UCLA and USC right now," says Colson. "We've made steals already."

Wayne Wright, Pepperdine's athletic director, revs the motor of his new Cadillac DeVille and slips some Grand Ole Opry music into the tape deck. A native Tennessean, Wayne went to David Lipscomb with Banowsky, Colson and several other Pepperdine administrators. ( Pepperdine students often snicker at the school's Bible Belt influences, and one favorite line is to call the Malibu campus " Lipscomb by the Sea.") Cruising toward a seafood house on the Pacific, Wright peers at Rose, who is seated in back. Rose, who just bought a Fiat, is visibly moved by Wright's auto. "It doesn't cost that much more to go first-class, Bob," says Wright.

More than an idle aside, the words are indicative of Pepperdine's philosophy in other areas, particularly athletics. "We do go first-class," says Wright. "Our teams stay in nice hotels, eat good food and travel first-rate. But we don't waste money. Of the $600,000 used on our whole program, we're talking about $400,000 just in grants-in-aid. It costs $5,000 a year merely to go to Pepperdine. Of course, the athletics don't pay for themselves, but I think the programs are justified as an image builder. Back East I don't know how many people have heard of the Pepperdine English Department, but I'll bet they've heard of our basketball team."

Wright sets out on a new tack. "Right now, when every college is facing a tremendous monetary struggle, one of the first things you have to do is lower the cost of recruiting. Well, we're right next to Los Angeles, the greatest sports hotbed in the nation. We don't have to travel to get our kids anymore. Most Southern California kids want to stay in the area. They like the climate and the fact that they have a greater chance to advance in pro sports. We may have as many as 15 or 20 major league scouts at a home baseball game, and I've sold kids just on that."

What with the increasing costs of running a major college sports program, when will Pepperdine have to taper off? "Well, the Board of Directors has given us constant endorsement because they continue to approve our budgets," says Wright. "So like in this new women's thing—we've only got three sports, so I say, let's win it all. Why not? I mean, we started women's basketball last year and, frankly, I was embarrassed by the whole thing. If we're going to have these sports, let's elevate them. I think our job is just to keep asking for money, to go as far as we can. Just how far that is, I honestly don't know."

Since the opening of the Malibu campus, Banowsky has set himself up as the one man responsible for whatever Pepperdine has become. A dynamic, complicated spellbinder, Banowsky is seen by the faculty and administrators as something of a law unto himself. "He runs this place like a dictator," says Rose. "A good dictator, though."

Donations from wealthy conservatives, some of whom have never even seen the campus but like the concept, have kept Pepperdine afloat through hard times. "I'm not like Oral Roberts, who can collect on TV," says Banowsky. "We need our donors. The conservative business community gives us money because they like our image—because we don't have hippies and Maoists and Marxists and Angela Davises. They say, 'We like what this school turns out.' I don't see hypocrisy in that."

Like most private universities, Pepperdine is hardly out of financial difficulty, and there is constant debate over certain of its priorities. For instance, despite the substantial athletic budget, full professors at the Malibu campus average only $17,150 for a two-trimester period. But Pepperdine's policies have been set for a reason. "I like sports," says Banowsky by way of explanation. "When I was growing up in Texas you proved your manhood through sports. You didn't play the trumpet. In college I was on a baseball scholarship. I was a pretty good catcher-outfielder, and I batted cleanup. I held the record for the most triples in a season. Did Colson mention that? He didn't? Well, a lot of them were actually home runs in which I got thrown out at the plate. I'm very slow." He chuckles softly at the image of 20-year-old Bill Banowsky sliding through a cloud of dust into a waiting catcher's mitt.

Clearly Banowsky has not underestimated the power of sports. Back in the president's house, in which no other president has lived, he sits behind a made-to-order desk hewn from a single oak log.

"Sports mean color at a university," he says, thumping the log. "They mean life, campus personality. Colleges tend to be fragmented, but sports give a sense of the whole. You can never get people together in one place, in one direction, like at a ball game. In the university business there is a constant struggle to state your appeal, to give public notice. It just so happens that newspapers have whole sections on sports. They don't have sections on airplanes. They don't have sections on museums or pianos. They have sports sections. That's how things are. America is sports-crazy."

Is Pepperdine, then, as some have said, a sports factory first and an academic institution only as a sideline?

Laughing and shaking his head, Banowsky leans back in his chair. "No, no, no. The academic priorities come first. Sports go first. What I have always said is that as long as we can have guns and butter we will have guns and butter. If we are forced for economic reasons to cut back on anything, we silence the guns. We keep the butter."

Pepperdine's president looks at his watch and, noting the time, indicates that he has other business to tend to. Outside the night is fresh and warm. In the quiet one can almost hear the guns of sport echoing and reechoing through the canyons of Malibu.
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shamustwin
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Re: Knock-Offs, Rip-Offs, and Just Plain UGLY!

Post by shamustwin »

Slightly off:

My daughter's public school's website states the percentage of it's students with a Minimum Proficiency of the English Language (whatever that means) is 25 (she's also been bullied for having a "Chinese face").

California schools used to be the envy of the country.

We are going to put her in private school, at around 800 bucks a month.
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wayang
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Re: Knock-Offs, Rip-Offs, and Just Plain UGLY!

Post by wayang »

Oh yeah, and that Brazilian basketball center...
_oldskooldj.jpg
...I remember him from my Intro To Humanities lecture class...he spoke only Portugeuse, and had been assigned a diminutive blond 'tutor' to accompany him to all his classes and 'take notes' for him. He was there on a 'full ride'...I was there as a National Merit Scholar, on a President's Award Scholarship for Math and Physics. My scholarship paid 20% of the costs of attending, which was seriously threatening my family with bankruptcy...

I guess I should have taken one of the other offers I got...I hear MIT's a pretty good school...but one thing I'll have to admit: Pepperdine certainly gave me 'an education'...

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Re: Knock-Offs, Rip-Offs, and Just Plain UGLY!

Post by jingle_jangle »

They got a Bolivian (language: Spanish) to translate for a Brasilian (language: Portuguese)? That's beyond ridiculous.
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