Intonation Adjustments of a Roller Bridge

[DavyR]

Anyone attempt to adjust the intonation on a Rose Morris Model 1996 Roller Bridge? What a pain! It appears that most of the bridge parts are threaded making it locked up. Am I missing something here for the procedure isn't in the manual.
I had to remove the threaded locknuts on the ends of the intonation screws near the pickups, turn the intonation screws to unthread them thru the U-shaped bridge piece near the pickups, turn the intonation screws while holding the saddle to estimate where the saddle will intonate and then continue to turn the intonation screws to lock them somewhat back into the threaded part of the bridge! Even the non-threaded side of the U-shaped bridge towards the tailpiece was too tight for the screw to move freely but not threaded. I'm ready to just replace the whole roller bridge! LOL! Anyone here OWN a vintage reissue roller bridge?

[chucksimms]

When those bridges get old they are very difficult to work on. I have a new replacement coming because mine too is almost impossible to alter. I'll post again when my new one arrives.

[doctorwho]

Hmmm ... I bought one of these reissue roller bridges on eBay sometime back for the restoration of my 1966 365 FG, but haven't gotten to that point in the restoration. If I find some time, I 'll pull it out and check on it. BTW I have an original roller bridge on my 1966 340 FG that I could use for comparison if need be.

[paologregorio]

I copied some instructions for making one's own roller bridge somewhere on my computer. Winfield Vintage sells them as well, IIRC. Some players don't like them due to the intonation issues, but the roller bridge on Graham Griffiths' 375 I played worked nicely, and it was a `62.

[jingle_jangle]

I copied some instructions for making one's own roller bridge somewhere on my computer. Winfield Vintage sells them as well, IIRC. Some players don't like them due to the intonation issues, but the roller bridge on Graham Griffiths' 375 I played worked nicely, and it was a `62.

The F body? It's a '59. I restored it...

I must be missing something here...the roller bridge's only difference from a standard bridge is in the saddle tops. Whether roller or non-roller, the bridges are constructed to be a very tight fit, so as to prevent rattles when under tension. The bridges take some patience to adjust, but as long as they're tight, stay in adjustment very well. It's an old design, and RIC has done their best to bring it to its optimum by carefully controlling manufacturing and assembly. Compared to a Fender or Gibson TOM, though, they can befuddle the newbie and try his/her patience!

[DavyR]

Let me try this again. A picture is worth 1000 words! LOL!

The roller bridge on my new 2008 Model 1996 Rose Morris Amber Fireglow short scale is very different than the bridge on my older 1990 reissue 325 and on most other normal RIC guitars I gather. On my 325 bridge the intonation screws "ride" freely on both sides of the U-shaped bridge piece. On the screw head side they pass thru the bridge piece. On the other side the screws do not pass completely thru are probably tapered at their ends and ride freely there. Also, there are springs placed over each screw between the saddle and the screw head side of the U-shaped bridge piece to keep things snug.

What is suppose to happen with the roller bridge, I gather, is the same thing, i.e., that the intonation screws should be able to turn freely as they ride through both sides of the U-shaped bridge piece to adjust the intonation. Instead, there are no springs and, in addition, there are (lock?) nuts on the ends on the intonation screws that pass completely thru the pickup side of the U-shaped bridge piece. Furthermore, and here's the problem, the screws are extremely tight to turn and, so much so, that I actually couldn't turn the screws without pounds of pressure. Too scary! I didn't what to break or strip something, so, I resorted to removing the (lock?) nuts and then to turn the screws thru the U-shaped bridge. Some were tighter than others. Here's the kicker!!! The pickup side of the U-shaped bridge piece was so tight that it appears the screws are threaded thru that side of the U-shaped bridge piece thereby defeating the idea of simply turning the intonation screws to adjust. If they are intentionally threaded, which would be really stupid, then you CAN'T simply turn the screws to intonate. Get it? Get the mechanics' logic? I suspect this was an error on RIC's part and they forced the screws thru the tight U-shaped bridge piece and force-threaded them thru in a rush. Yuk! If so, shame on them!!!

[xcoyle]

The roller bridge is the same as a standard bridge up to about 1984, other than the roller part. It is a regular screw head, with a nut on the end. The nuts are not for tightening, but rather to hold the screw in place and they turn and should not be removed.

With that said, it is very difficult to adjust these with a screw driver, while on the guitar. Most of the screws on these have been striped to some degree, which shows they are tough to turn for varies reasons (stuck, bad angle, not the perfect size screw driver, etc.).

I always check intonation first, and then take off the bridge. Put a little oil on it (Blue bottle of 3in1). Than place the bridge firmly in one hand, and press hard with a perfect fit screw driver and get the screw turning and the oil will loosen it up. Than adjust saddles to where i believe they should be. There is a correct shape for the saddles. (Step up for higher notes, step back for non wound string, than step up again). Put it back on and since they were loosened up, you should be able to do fine adjustments on guitar.

[DavyR]

Thank you! This makes more sense. I'll try this. Shame it's such a pain. Yes, the screws are VERY tight and so out of line that they seem threaded thru the bridge on the one side. But, they are not. My error. I used a magnifying glass!

By correct saddle shape, step up step down, are you talking about the shape of the radius of the bridge? On this bridge the D-string saddle seems a bit too high as compared to the flow of the ascending height of the saddles.

[xcoyle]

"By correct saddle shape, step up step down, are you talking about the shape of the radius of the bridge?"

No, I am referring to the position of the saddles relative other saddles. Once the low E saddle is intonated, the A saddle will naturally be a little closer to the pickup than the low E. The D saddle will be a little closer to the pickup than the A saddle. The G saddle, because the string is unwound, will be set farther away from the pickup than the D saddle. The B saddle will be closer to the pickup than the G saddle, and finally the high E saddle will be closer to the pickup than the B saddle.

A trick for setting intonation is to get the two E's intonated, and than just create this natural shape for the other 4.

Now if you were using a wound G, the first saddle set back would be the B saddle.

An interesting observation is the 450 bridge, which is non-adjustable, has the B string set back. This would work on a guitar with a wound G, but is wrong for an electric with unwound G (In the 60s the G was most likely wound). The fact that Ric and Gibson never changed it when the unwound G was the norm, is probably a case of tradition rather than understanding the proper shape.

[DavyR]

Oh, ok! I got it! Thanks! You know your stuff.

[paologregorio]

I copied some instructions for making one's own roller bridge somewhere on my computer. Winfield Vintage sells them as well, IIRC. Some players don't like them due to the intonation issues, but the roller bridge on Graham Griffiths' 375 I played worked nicely, and it was a `62.

The F body? It's a '59. I restored it...

Nope. GG bought a FG 1962 375 from a guy in Fullerton. It's the "Chet Cox" signature model-the one with the Art Deco Style letters in the form of the original owner's name (Chet Cox, of course) stuck on it over the soundhole. It's what we'd normally call an "OS" model, though some of the fellers told me I couldn't call it an "OS" because it was built before the introduction of the "New Style (NS...or TS )"-before there was a "NS" so it's just a `62 375, no "OS".