How do you tune your 12-string?

[YukonCor55]

Thanks for all the great tips. When i bought my 370/12 I got it all tuned up to dead on 440 pitch but somehow it didn't sound just right. I never considered that maybe it was too much in tune!

[whojamfan]

Once again, the faults and flaws of a piece of music gear are it's desired functions

Is there any other set out there that commonly misuses definitions,(a tremolo on a guitar actually produces vibrato), worships outdated and technically inferior gear(tubes, analog stomp boxes, etc), and manages to reinvent the industry out of design failures,(speakers that break up too soon, and amplifiers that distort the signal.), or are we the only ones who do this on almost every level?

[jps]

Is there any other set out there that commonly misuses definitions,(a tremolo on a guitar actually produces vibrato), worships outdated and technically inferior gear(tubes, analog stomp boxes, etc), and manages to reinvent the industry out of design failures,(speakers that break up too soon, and amplifiers that distort the signal.), or are we the only ones who do this on almost every level?

isn't that what makes us all geniuses?

[paologregorio]

Is there any other set out there that commonly misuses definitions,(a tremolo on a guitar actually produces vibrato), worships outdated and technically inferior gear(tubes, analog stomp boxes, etc), and manages to reinvent the industry out of design failures,(speakers that break up too soon, and amplifiers that distort the signal.), or are we the only ones who do this on almost every level?

isn't that what makes us all geniuses?

Audiophiles perhaps; a love of vinyl records, and tube pre and power amps for their stereo systems. I had an amp tech hold me hostage for a couple of hours one night through a series of tube swaps in his custom self built tube powered home stereo system. He went through about 12 tube changes or so, explaining the differences in sound with each tube change. Of the twelve tube changes or so I was able to tell a difference on only about two or three of the tubes. I'm not sure about the misuse of terms among this bunch.

Another might be old school hot rodders and motorcyclists; my good friend and fellow band member Meatball doesn't like to "upgrade" classic bikes with the readily available, reliable, and hassle free electronic ignition systems, instead preferring the original type Lucas dual point ignition system for everyday use, though he likes some of the fancy aftermarket magneto ignition systems available, but those are the evolution of old school racing motorcycle upgrades.

Among this latter bunch the only misuse of term that comes to mind is "motor", which technically should only apply to electric power sources, as in electric motors, gasoline engines, but that's the only one I can think of.

[collin]

Once again, the faults and flaws of a piece of music gear are it's desired functions

Is there any other set out there that commonly misuses definitions,(a tremolo on a guitar actually produces vibrato), worships outdated and technically inferior gear(tubes, analog stomp boxes, etc), and manages to reinvent the industry out of design failures,(speakers that break up too soon, and amplifiers that distort the signal.), or are we the only ones who do this on almost every level?

yeah, that's really funny when ya think about it.

Guitarists (and most other gearheads) are a bundle of contradictions. Obsessed with changes/new technology while perpetually championing 60 year old building techniques and quality standards. Constantly changing things to find that "perfect tone" and accidently stumbling on said "design failures" and flaws that produce desireable effects and sounds. etc etc.....it's a pretty strange business compared to other industries, that's for sure.

[whojamfan]

Maybe Buzzy Feiton could come up with a tempered nut that would allow dead on tuning with a tuner to give the max jangle. Just a thought

[teb]

I actually called a couple Buzz Feiten dealers once to see what they thought about doing their procedure to one of my twelves. One was also a RIC dealer, the other was not. To be honest, the Buzz-techs I talked to at both places were in no big hurry to try it on a Rickenbacker twelve and I got the distinct feeling that they were seriously hoping that I would drop the issue and go away. I assume that it should be do-able, but I didn't really get a confident feeling that I wanted either of them disassembling one of my twelves. One did mention that he would need to special-order a nut for it, so maybe the home office takes care of the specific compensation prescription and the dealer becomes more of an installer and clean up man.

As it turned out, I ended up sending that guitar out to Arnquist. He rebuilt and installed a 12-saddle bridge to vintage specs (no more sharp edges) moved the bridge base plate (there is some sort of disagreement between MA and JH about where exactly the bridge should be located, but I'm not really up on the details) replaced the nut and frets to give my fat old bass player fingertips as much room as possible and set it to some sort of slightly "sweetened" intonation using a Peterson strobe tuner. Problems solved, but I'd still like to see what the Feiten system and their own prescription sweetened tunings would do on a Rickenbacker twelve, just out of curiosity.

I've owned ten twelve-strings over the years, acoustics and electrics. The Rickenbackers seem to be a lot more fussy about intonation adjustment than any of the others. All I can figure is that they are that way because the sound is so much brighter and cleaner than the rest. There just isn't any mid-range-mud to hide minor problems. There are times when this can be frustrating, but when you have one hitting on all cylinders, it's glorious.

[miltric]

when you have one hitting on all cylinders, it's glorious

Yes, indeed. I recently had my 660/12, which I've owned for about 8 months, set up for the first time by my favorite luthier. The set up did wonders for it, but I didn't realize the extent until I played it at band rehearsal last night. Because my wife and I just moved into a new house, I hadn't taken the thing out of its case in weeks, and it was still almost in perfect tune (except for the B strings, which were off just a tad, creating that "sweetened" sound that I think many here are talking about). Anyway, I was blown away by how good the thing sounded. (BTW, I had the same experience with my 360/6: I had 11's put on it during the set up, and the thing features the tastiest crunch now of any guitar I've ever played.)

The moral of the story, from my perspective, is that having a gifted luthier do a set-up on any guitar, but a 12-string in particular, can make all the difference in the world.

[whojamfan]

Yeah Todd, I bet those guys were dreading having to figure that one out
Seriously though, I think you would have to make a completely custom nut for the Rick 12, since they all seem a little different set up wise, and 1 brand and gauge of string would probably be the only thing that would work right. I sent an email to them about Rick 12s, and never got a response. All of those claims about how earth shattering having one installed is got me thinking about how they could put their money where their mouth is.

[teb]

Problem solved.....with my new invention.......wait for it.......
THE TWELVE-SADDLE NUT!
I'm sure P.W. can whip us up a bunch of these in no time flat.
What could be better than taking a simple product with a proven track record spanning decades and making it horribly complex?
....kind of reminds me of a kid with braces.....

[akhv]

yes, that's right direction!

next step: 12-saddle frets

[whojamfan]

Lemme guess, won't be in stock for 20 years

[RonLovesRic12strings]

Another vote for the white Boss pedal tuner (TU-2).......very convenient to have in your pedal chain. I tune all 12 strings to the "attack", rather than the "decay" of the string being tuned. I tend to tune all strings ever so slightly flat rather than sharp, especially with the B strings and the G strings. In this way, the notes and chords on the first few frets sound right on and not sharp. As an added tip, always tune up to the desired pitch, not down.

[lcjones]

Or, if you have tinnitus, like I do, you can just tune literally "by ear". Mine ring 24/7 with a really high D. If I concentrate on the note and drop it down a couple octaves, most of the time it's spot on. In stereo-mixing terms, mine is about 20% left of center and once in a while the two sides don't agree perfectly. The resulting warble is a good definition of "seriously annoying".

Ha. You know, I just never thought of tuning by tinnitus. I'll find my special note and try that when I get home tonight. But I'm like you, 24x7 and seriously annoying doesn't even come close on some days. What I like is when it fades out for a minute and comes back in stronger. Kinda like a head buzz!


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[johnashfield]

I tune the low E and A octaves a bit flat since they tend to go sharp when one chords the strings... not so much that they are out when open though...

One thing I see and hear a lot of guitarists do is tune to the sustain on a tuner, like, they have the note in tune as it rings out, which IMO is wrong. The note should be in tune when picked and then the decay should go slightly flat.

Your ears may vary though... or something.

One thing I must say is that my 360/12 is the one guitar I have that always stays in tune. It's crazy how consistent it stays!