Hi-gains in a 4004L

[Emanuel-Bassist]

Hi my name is Emanuel. I am a bassist from Los Angeles. I have scoured this site regarding hi gains in a 4004L. I'm going to order out of stock a MG 4004L (first Ric in a long time). I plan to immediately go VVT 1000K. I really prefer the 4001/4003 sound but like the styling and simplicity of the L, so if the VVT mod does not absolutely kill, I'm gonna want hi gains. I’ve searched for the topic of hi gains in a 4004 but everyone was talking about hi gains as they relate to 4-2-5 basses or using toasters. I want the hi gain sound, bridge and neck. My questions are very specific in regards to the wider spacing of a 4004L (with the neck pickup up against the fret board)..
Here we go:
Can I use a new hi gain bass neck pick up in the neck position of a 4004 and have the strings line up?-any mods needed?
Can I use a new guitar bridge/middle hi gain in the bridge position of a 4004 or just another bass neck hi gain?-any mods needed?
I plan to copper foil shield everything if I go single coil but would RWRP be advantageous?
If, for cosmetic reasons I need toaster covers, where can one find them?
Is the Hipshot A bridge a good idea or even necessary? (I like hipshot products).
I’d appreciate your help guys because after my family, TONE is the most important thing in my life.
Any thoughts (or schematics) are welcome!
Thanx, Emanuel.
P.S. While I always try to play to the song, I am given to outbursts of potent blasts of aggressive bass. I play finger style for the most part but will use a pick to great effect (I can't wait to get my Rickenbacker). Sometimes I am a bit ham-fisted. This might very well be relevant in relation to the "buttons" on a hi-gain!

[cheyenne]

Drop Dane Wilder a line. (aceonbass)

He's done this. He suggests that due to the wider fingerboard on the 4004 basses, that you use bridge position guitar hi-gains. Also, due to lack of clearance between the strings and pole pieces, you have to remove the poles and replace them with headless allen screws. Then you can put toaster covers on if you want.

[Emanuel-Bassist]

Thanx man, I do that. UPDATE: bass ordered!

[rickaddict]

Hey Emanuel!

Just in case you're interested....

http://rickresource.com/forum/viewtopic ... 6&t=389201

Welcome to the Forum, BTW!!

[rickenbrother]

Welcome to the forum, Emanuel!

[qwezirider]

Here we go:
Can I use a new guitar bridge/middle hi gain in the bridge position of a 4004 or just another bass neck hi gain?-any mods needed?
Is the Hipshot A bridge a good idea or even necessary? (I like hipshot products).
Sometimes I am a bit ham-fisted. This might very well be relevant in relation to the "buttons" on a hi-gain!

Welcome to the forum. The questions of yours I can answer because I did this with a Cii (granted, a 4-2-5 conversion, but the idea is the same):

1. Yes, the high gain bridge guitar pickups work wonderfully. They fit the hole and sound good. The only drop off in sound I experienced was on the low B string and only after I put in a Schaller 5 string bridge, yet not with the individual string bridges I initially used. E though G strings sounded potent as usual with six pole pieces being in range of a string at all times. I used two guitar bridge pickups in both positions on the bass. No mods required.

2. I Hipshot bridge would not be necessary to do this. That would be a matter of preference. I would stick with the stock bridge were it my bass, you may like something different.

3. I found, with leaving the stock buttons on the pickups, I had better string coverage. I also have a reasonably light playing technique and would often run into hitting the pickup only with the B string, and that was largely because I often use that string as a thumb anchor, thereby inadvertently pushing down too hard on the string for the buttons. E through G were rarely a problem for me, although with a harder playing style, it can happen. For that reason, the beauty of new pickups is the adjustable pole pieces. Take 'em out, put in headless hex screws, don't like that, swap things out...hell, you can have hex screws in problem strings and stock pole pieces under non problematic strings. Mix and match to a sound you like.

That all said, I claim ignorance to the body build of a Loredo. I've heard all maple and I've heard they have the walnut sandwich as well as a Cii. That said, my tonal experience with single coils and the Cii maple/walnut/maple body was not altogether displeasing, but it did not meet my desire to have that 4003 sound in a 4004 body. It was more a hybrid of the two models, not entirely like either stock bass. Kind of a mellowed 4003 sound, not as potent or ballsy. Fortunately, a pickup change is reversible and you can sell the pickups for a fair amount should you not like the result. I'm currently happy (VERY!) with another 4004L 4-2-5 conversion with the humbuckers and a 4003 for the growl I like on those occasions.

[Emanuel-Bassist]

Thank you Bruce, that’s pretty much everything I need to know to get started. I’m going to get an order in for some guitar hi gains/250K pots in right away because I can’t leave ANYTHING alone (drives my wife crazy-like the time I “reliced” a perfectly good fender RI jazz, how stupid! It sold really fast though and for a lot of money).
I ordered my bass from north coast music and the website shows pictures of the actual guitars available with the respective serial number, very cool. I ordered a maple glow and I could see that it’s all maple, which will help my cause for a 4003ish tone.(the site did not show the headstock however so if it shows up without walnut there, I will be BUMMED). I’m not very hip with ordering a bass site unseen without playing it. But it’s not like you can, even here in Los Angeles, waltz down to your local store and chose one off the shelf-but that’s part of the Ric experience. Anyway I have a 48 hr inspection period so wish me luck! The first thing I’m going to do is put it up to my ear, I'll know right there if I like the wood, then I’ll check for dead spots.

Thanx again Bruce (and everyone, you guys are a unique breed). Oh and Bruce don’t forget---everybody’s got something to hide…except for me and my MONKEY!

[Emanuel-Bassist]

Dane was kind enough to provide me with this info

Emanuel,
First off, the poles on a high gain bass pickup will not line up perfectly with the strings on a 4004 and the poles will be in the way, especially with aggressive playing. For optimum string coverage, use bridge position guitar high gains in both positions with the poles removed, replaced by Allan screws and toaster covers on top. You won't need any other bridge as the stock Schaller is just fine. 500K pots with the single coils will be plenty bright enough. 1000K would probably be overkill. I don't have schematics, but they can be found on a number of sites. I'd go with stacked CTS pots for V/T V/T with a selecor switch...and not that wimpy little switch RIC uses either. Use a Switchcraft switch for a Les Paul. It wil fit the cavity and go through the wood with threads to spare. Order up a pair of Orange Drop .047 caps too. You can get everything from Guitar Parts Resource. I hope I've answered all your Q's. Let me know how it turns out and send a pic or post some on the forum...........................Dane Thank you Dane.

My reply....
I plan to do a VVT mod with the HB’s in place using 1meg pots first to see if like it. If I do not I will fully shield the bass and use the guitar bridge hi-gains, unbuttoned with 250k pots and one of the 1960’s ceramic disk .50 caps that I have lying around.

I’m intrigued with your suggestion for using VT-VT with a switch using concentric pots. I my experience the tone parts of that circuit tend to interact with each other and are not fully independent even when using only one pickup (I’ve never tried a selector switch before the VT-VT though), how did you get around that?

Thanx for saving me some money on the bridge!

If I need toaster covers, where can I find them?

Thank you again for your help Dane. I’ll post some pictures when I read up on how to do so. I'm going to post this as well. Emanuel.