New Dillion Rick copies

[whojamfan]

I worked at a store where a guy brought in one of those 330 copies(I think it was a Turser, but I don't remember as it was over 12 years ago)to sell or trade. The owner promptly told him he could not buy it or trade for it because it would open up the possibility that problems would arise. The customer was confused, obviously,but the boss explained to him why he couldn't have it in his store. The guy asks "If that's the case, then why do people make these?", which got the response of "because they are idiots". It was pretty funny, even to the customer.

No Idea what the guy did with it.

[jingle_jangle]

No Idea what the guy did with it.

Maybe he sold/lent it to a Canadian/Chinese company called "Indie"?

[rickfan60]

Here's a puzzle - Can someone explain to me how these guys manage get away with this sort of thing under copyright law - in North America, no less? They're clearly imitations - and not cheap ones.

http://www.jsdguitarshack.com/dillion_g ... ng_fg.html

http://www.jsdguitarshack.com/dillion_g ... etter.html

What Rickenbacker enforces are trademarks. Copyrights apply to published material. Certain distinguishable features of Rickenbacker instruments like the head and body shapes and the look of the pickups are trademarks.

[Razorback]

I've seen Indie's at several local stores, but they are not Canadian. They're UK based.

http://www.indieguitars.com/guitarshop/erol.html#1503X0

[turninggrey]

I hate to say it but my brother owns a Canadian Dillion and it is kind of impressive for the price. He got it from Craigslist for $475 used. It plays very well for the money, but its not a Rick, but he plays it through a Vox and with some tweaking it is really is sweet. He does not mind gigging with it and it gets a lot of attention from the uninformed. I'm just saying.....

[jingle_jangle]

Counterfeits is counterfeits. Discussing their relative merits is beside the point, and the point is theft of intellectual property, plain and simple.

[Bighouse]

Counterfeits is counterfeits. Discussing their relative merits is beside the point, and the point is theft of intellectual property, plain and simple.

Totally have to agree with Paul on this one. I don't think anyone should ever encourage counterfeiting of intellectual property. In fact, it should be discouraged in all cases. I'd like to see it stop at a grass roots level- with musical instrument buyers just saying "NO" to a copy that takes money away from and potentially discredits the originators/owners of trademarked items. Stores such as those that carry such wares would quickly find out that there's no benefit for them to carry such illegal copies if they can't sell them. \

Imagine if YOU worked hard on something, investing your heart and soul into it to make it unique and "YOURS" and then someone just did a a close knock-off of your work and sold it for a lot less...and people, thinking they were supporting you and YOUR creation were instead shilling out their money for an imitation...it's just not right for a lot of reasons.

[chai-man]

Putting aside all the emotional baggage, the extent to which sale of copies is theft, and if so, how much is being stolen from the manufacturer, depends on the extent to which the production of copies restricts the price or sale of the real thing. Strongly? Or are they mostly going to people who would not otherwise have the combination of wherewithal or inclination to buy the real thing?

My guess - and it is little more than simply that - is that it is more the latter than the former, since most of the copies I've come across are a fairly poor simulcrum. But this is why discussion of quality of copies is in fact an important issue. The better quality the copy, the more apparently theft-like any copy becomes. Is it half a cent stolen per copy (if so, who cares?) or $300? This is an issue.

Alternatively, it may also be that Rick copies are like some people used to see marijuana - a sort of entry-level drug, whereby users are positively encouraged to make a transitions to the real thing. I suspect some forum members started out via the world of the Rick copy, got addicted and moved on up to their destination (thanks for that Curtis!). In this case, copies may positively encourage Rick business rather than restrict it. Again, it seems to me that this positive story is more likely as a scenario when copies are of relatively low quality. So this is another reason why quality of copies is an important issue to discuss in its own right.

Of course the other option, which Rick have chosen not to pursue, is a licensing arrangement with a quality but cheaper Asian producer, along the lines of that Fender made with Greco or do now with their Squier Classic Vibe brand through China. The reluctance, for whatever reason, of the manufacturer to pursue such a strategic choice puts Rick prices up, harms guitar players and encourages a dodgy copy production/retail industry.

[cjj]

Here we go again...

[octagon]

Here we go again...

My thoughts exactly,why do we even have these threads,they all end badly.

[winston]

Simon your argument has been repeated ad nauseam over time by a few members (some of whom have left us) and as such you will not find that you do not have very many supporters here, if any on this forum for your position. I suggest that you do a search of other similar threads on this forum to see how they turned out.

The fact that these copies are sold by a music store does not make them legitmate in any way.........even as an entry level guitar; which their price alone suggests that they are not.

[Bighouse]

Here we go again...

My thoughts exactly,why do we even have these threads,they all end badly.

I'm still fairly new here...I don't know how they typically end- but am willing to wait it out and see.

I cannot, however, see any really compelling reason to make an illegal copy of an instrument- unless you're using it as a prop to set on fire or destroy in a video...if someone really wants a RIC, how does buying a cheap copy satisfy that itch? If you're new to guitars, why would a illegal RIC copy satisfy any more than an original, similarly priced instrument by Fender or Epiphone...and also, although imitiation is supposed to be a form of flattery, by copying others, it keeps us all from evolving artisticly...in any design endeavor. I'd rather see those manufacturers put their energy into making something NEW that might reshape the industry in some new and exciting, unforseen way.

[mcarroll1031]

I saw one of these on you tube. It sounded like garbage. I dont know if it was the fault of the player, his mic, or what. I can see the Legal Dept. at Rickenbacker stomping these right out of production though. The problem is that they will make as many as humanly possible before an injunction is filed. I would never even cosider buying a Rick copy, and I know there out there. The really funny part is that Dillion America claims to have no association with the so called trash coming out of Dillion Canada. Like they are soooooo much better than the other rip off copy. I also know that a Ferrari is a Ferrari, and nothing else will do.

[jingle_jangle]

Putting aside all the emotional baggage, the extent to which sale of copies is theft, and if so, how much is being stolen from the manufacturer, depends on the extent to which the production of copies restricts the price or sale of the real thing. Strongly? Or are they mostly going to people who would not otherwise have the combination of wherewithal or inclination to buy the real thing?

This topic does deserve a sticky IMO.

"Emotional baggage" is a nonsensical term and seems to be hauled out in this case in an effort, conscious or otherwise, to trivialize what is, in fact, a matter of law. Even a cursory review of the text of the Lanham Act will help to put this issue in the proper cold, unemotional light in which it should be seen.

There really is no middle ground on this issue. Concerns like whether a potential buyer could not afford a genuine Rickenbacker or whether this fills a need in the marketplace, are entirely irrelevant.

Open an Asian factory to supply the low end of the market? This is about as likely as hell freezing over tomorrow.

[turninggrey]

I saw one of these on you tube. It sounded like garbage. I dont know if it was the fault of the player, his mic, or what. I can see the Legal Dept. at Rickenbacker stomping these right out of production though. The problem is that they will make as many as humanly possible before an injunction is filed. I would never even cosider buying a Rick copy, and I know there out there. The really funny part is that Dillion America claims to have no association with the so called trash coming out of Dillion Canada. Like they are soooooo much better than the other rip off copy. I also know that a Ferrari is a Ferrari, and nothing else will do.

What kills me is the whole "lawsuit guitar" cult that has sprung up. There are Tokai forums that are actually insulted that someone would copy a Tokai copy!!! Tokai makes a pretty good guitar for the money and put out a popular Rick copy that still gets big money if you can find one, but when you read their forums, they are......besides themselves that someone would clone a Tokai Rick copy !!!! Anyway, It seems to me that Rickenbacker needs to keep up its endless pursuit of these guitars which is a shame, because it adds to the bottom line which is passed on to us, the Rick customers. Playing a Rick right next to a clone puts a better light on things.