Help putting a vintage tone pull pot in a Larado

[Emanuel-Bassist]

I really need some help here! I am the proud owner of a 4004L, I like the softer styling and simple layout of the 4004L but much perfer the classic Rickenbacher single coil tone. With that in mind I've purchased two guitar bridge position hi-gains, two 330K pots and a vintage tone pull pot with .0047 cap. I would like to wire then in a Vol, Vol, Tone configuration after I have cooper foil shielded the pup and control routs. I had thought that the pull pot was on a vol knob of a 4003 (dont ask me why but Ive only owned 4001s) but the drawing provided by Mike Parks shows that, in fact, the pull pot is on the treble tone knob and that there is A LOT going on in there. At this point I am wondering if it will be possible to use this pot in a V V T configuration for its intended use: on demand vintage wiring for the treble pickup. Please Help! In fact I would appreciate ANY thoughts one might have regarding this bass, shielding, uses for a pull pot, wiring, hi-gains etc. Ive got a fellow ric player waiting on the HB's and I only wish to take string tension off the neck once for the work. Thanx, Emanuel. P.S. I posted this on the tech forum as well.

[jc-sz]

I don't know much and you'll certainly get better answers, but I guess that if you want to have only 3 pots, and have the push/pull tone, you should wire it so that the push/pull tone acts as bridge pup tone only, and sacrifice not having a tone for the neck pup. Now, if you want it to be like the 4003 you need to add 4 pots and keep the pup switch.

If its a mono output, you could consider making it TTV using the push/pull for the bridge pup.

That's my 2cent's...

Cheers

[johnallg]

The .0047uF goes in between the lead from the bridge pickup and the volume pot. The tone switch would have 2 wires that go to each end of that cap. Wire the neck pup lead to the bass pot, the bridge pup lead to the .0047uF, the other end of the .0047uF to the treble pot, join the two volume pot tabs you just soldered the neck and .0047uF lead to with a wire, and the tone cap (.047uF) to that same wire with the other end to the tone pot. The outputs of the volume pots get wired together and to the output jack.

Clear??

If you follow a Fender Jazz wiring diagram and include the .0047uF as I described above you have it.

[incubus2432]

You could go with a stacked pot for volumes, regular for neck p/u tone and the push pull pot for the bridge vintage tone selector. Same options as a 4001/4003.

[Emanuel-Bassist]

Thank you! Let me apologize in advance of some of this is redundant or stupid.
(For clarity all references to pot lugs are based on the Fender diagram for a American Jazz from Fender’s site).
Let me word this in a way that will verify that I understand you:
The neck pickup is wired to the middle lug of the neck pickup vol pot.
The .0047 cap is in line (and will have a wire on each end from the switch) with the bridge pickup lead and the middle lug of the bridge pickup vol pot.
The middle lug of the neck vol pot is wired to the middle lug of the bridge vol pot and that lug is wired to the middle lug of the tone pot with a .047 cap in line.
The output lugs of the volume pots are wired together and then to the jack.
Questions:
(for clarity let’s reference the switch with the pot on the bottom, lugs facing you and the switch contacts numbered 1at the top left, 2 at the top right and so on with 6 being the bottom right).

I am assuming that the bridge pickup vol pot will be the one with the switch on it.
Which two contacts on the switch do I use to connect to each end of the .0047 cap? (and which contact to which end if thats relevant).
Will I need to bridge any of the contacts? Will I ground the switch body in any way?
I know that grounding will be important in this circuit to keep the .0047 cap “discreet” and as to not create some kind of loop or weird loading.
A Jazz wiring shows a lug on each pot grounded to the case (or with a cap grounding it on the tone pot) and of course, without the metal control cover, one would have to chain them together and to the jack ground.
Will this be the same?
I am assuming that the two pickup ground leads will be soldered to their respective pots in a typical fashion.

I cannot thank you enough John! Manny.

[johnallg]

Manny had PM'd me this and here is my reply:

Thank you! Let me apologize in advance of some of this is redundant or stupid.
(For clarity all references to pot lugs are based on the Fender diagram for a American Jazz from Fender’s site).
Let me word this in a way that will verify that I understand you:
The neck pickup is wired to the middle lug of the neck pickup vol pot.
The .0047 cap is in line (and will have a wire on each end from the switch) with the bridge pickup lead and the middle lug of the bridge pickup vol pot.
The middle lug of the neck vol pot is wired to the middle lug of the bridge vol pot and that lug is wired to the middle lug of the tone pot with a .047 cap in line.
The output lugs of the volume pots are wired together and then to the jack.
Questions:
(for clarity let’s reference the switch with the pot on the bottom, lugs facing you and the switch contacts numbered 1at the top left, 2 at the top right and so on with 6 being the bottom right).

I am assuming that the bridge pickup vol pot will be the one with the switch on it.
Which two contacts on the switch do I use to connect to each end of the .0047 cap? (and which contact to which end if thats relevant).
Will I need to bridge any of the contacts? Will I ground the switch body in any way?
I know that grounding will be important in this circuit to keep the .0047 cap “discreet” and as to not create some kind of loop or weird loading.
A Jazz wiring shows a lug on each pot grounded to the case (or with a cap grounding it on the tone pot) and of course, without the metal control cover, one would have to chain them together and to the jack ground.
Will this be the same?
I am assuming that the two pickup ground leads will be soldered to their respective pots in a typical fashion.

I cannot thank you enough John! Manny.

Manny, not stupid! You want to do it right the first time and asking to be sure is very wise. I have numbered your steps above.

1. Yes
2. Yes
3. No. The American Jazz schematic I found on the Fender site shows the outside lugs (not the grounded lugs) are the ones wired together and to the center of the tone pot. The .047uF tone cap goes from the outside lug to ground.
4. Sorta. As in the step I typed above, yes they are wired this way, plus to the center lug of the tone pot as in my #3, then to the output jack.

The pot with the switch would better be the tone pot, as on a 4003. Since it switches the tone, they made it be a tone pot.

As to the switch contacts, one wire from the center tab to one end of the .0047uF (doesn't matter, make it neat). Then if you want the cap out when the switch is down, wire the other wire to the tab closest to the pot body. If you want the cap in when the switch is down, wire to the tab furthest from the pot body.

Bridge the double contacts - top to top, middle to middle, bottom to bottom. That doubles the contacts and makes it more reliable longer.

Grounding. Wire the shields from the pickups to the pot body. Jumper all pot bodies together. Solder the wire from the bridge to a pot body. Solder a jumper from the nearest pot to the ground tab on the output jack.

As to the Jazz grounding and your explanation, yes as you explained it and as I explained in my last paragraph.

I tried to cover all your points clearly. If you still have questions, PM again.

John

[johnallg]

Again he wrote and my reply:

Thanx again John, yeah it's dead simple: just wire like a Jazz, put the .0047 in line with the bridge lead and put that in the tone switch loop! I still have to find replacement threaded rods because I'm going to unbutton the hi gains and use toaster covers (the really groovy mom and pop hardware store that had EVERYTHING has been closed, bummer). I sold the HB's (way too dark for my taste) and I know the guy cant wait to have them so perhaps I'll just install the hi gains and deal with the unbuttoning latter I'll try home depot but I'll be on my own. What do you know about the threads? You'll be the first to hear how it's going man and I'm so stoked! Manny.

Manny, you got it.

As for converting higains for toaster covers, read this:

viewtopic.php?f=12&t=378589&st=0&sk=t&sd=d&hilit=allen+screw+toaster&start=30#p394332

Search "allen screw toaster" and you will get more info than you want.

[Emanuel-Bassist]

Hey John. I did the work and the switch works but my tone knob did not, it does nothing until it is backed off all the way where it sends the whole signal to ground and you hear nothing. Its probably a ground problem somewhere, I shielded the cavity (on the gig the bass was dead quiet) and something may be touching or got jammed up when I put the harness in, it was tight in there. I know that I wired it exactly per our conversation so its got to be a ground problem. I gig'd the bass without pole pieces but Im going to need them because there was some serious balance issues (both E and especially the G string were very quite) and want the increased output, if I cannot resolve the balance thing I may look into wiring HB's in parallel, has anybody tried this? The bass sounded great though! I could not roll any treble off because of the defunct tone control but I love the two distinct sounds, vintage and modern, so I'm going to do everything I can to get the tone knob working with the switch in the bass. The bass REALLY sounded good, I love it. I need to adjust the truss rod to take out some forward bow, what size deep socket will I need? Also the strings (Rotosound SSteel 45-105) are binding in the nut and frankly, Id like to have it lowered a bit. Other than that this is s dream bass, I cant wait to record with it! Thanx again, Manny.